My wife has stated that the joy of having the children was really what overcame her loathing of the inevitable pain that the birthing process. She often stated it's a good thing that that memory seems to diminish quickly. And she recently discovered that she has a kidney stone in each kidney.
Yes, this is true. Part of me just wanted to hear myself talk yesterday. Terrible. Will pray about this as well.
A woman's desire for her husband is original to creation, so in itself it's not part of the curse. There are two things we would look for in Scripture with respect to the 'curse' under question: - Men ruling over / dominating women - Women trying to control men We would be remiss if we focused on one, found no instance of it, and then declared both fantasy. Why would we restrict our search to 'God's people'? That is the exact population that would be trying to live in as proper a relationship with eachother as possible. I can think of a couple examples off the top of my head (and with little time): - Men ruling over / dominating women = women having no choice in who they married (Abraham? Isaac? Joseph? Jacob?, et al.); Lot treating his daughters with contempt by offering them to the men of Sodom, etc. Women trying to control men = Jezebel, as you mentioned (irrelevant that she's not a Jew); Lot's daughters treating their father with contempt by sleeping with him, etc. But then also think of the stereotypes today, of men who boss around their wives and of wives who nag their husbands. That's just as good an example of the 'curse' as any. The curse on the serpent / ground is uttered in direct relation to the Fall, so they're not 'completely unrelated'. Same as above: the curse is uttered in direction relation to the Fall, so it's not 'completely unrelated'. Because of the pain; not everyone takes or has access to an epidural. Because the ground is difficult to work with. You're pretty much agreeing with me now Men have always been in love with being with women, so the feeling isn't exclusive to women. What's different is how each sex expresses that desire (e.g. men abuse women, women stay with abusive men). Only if you think that men are free in ways that women aren't, and no one here would ever say that.
There are various ways to look at the Genesis account. One way is that God reveals (explains) why some things are as they are. Death, suffering etc. This includes man ruling over women as it was already practiced for millennia till it was written down and stamped as Scripture. Surely the ruling part was greatly misused by men during the millennia. It's not even a century ago the western world started to look at things in a different way. As for the longing part, Adam wasn't any different when he saw Eve the first time
I would say that the ruling part was taken to a major extreme when God didn't intend it to be so. Help meet does not equal slave.
I desire a Twinkie, therefore, I shall take ultimate control by convincing it to rob a bank on my behalf.
You would be in control if you could convince a Twinkie, against its better judgment, to rob a bank for you.
Haven't y'all gotten a bit off the subject? We're supposed to be talking about Women's roles iin the churcharen't we? Where in the world do women and their husbands or Twinkies come in? That's a bit crazy to me. God calls women to many roles, sometimes to marriage or not, sometimes to secular jobs or not or stay-at-home Moms or not to be Moms at all. But when God calls a woman to ministry, let's pray like I would for any MAN called to ministry, that he/she would respond positively to that call and not go into ministry for ANY other reason! I can see where perhaps a man might well be a better candidate for a pastorate, and I realize that Scripture confirms that, although I have known at least two excellent women in that position. One was my grandmother's pastor in the Nazarene church. She was a wonderful preacher and pastor, and when Grammy passed away, she ministered to my family in an awesome manner! The other is a Methodist minister who just happens to be the granddaughter of the real late Baron von Trapp. She is superb at preaching, weddings, and funerals and family ministry. Other areas of ministry are definitely fair game for women: missionaries, music ministry, Christian education: you name it! But I repeat, NO ONE, male or female should go into ministry for ANY other reason than a strong call of God, and that should be confirmed by those with whom that person will work.