Morality: based on the Bible or our views?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by devilslayer365, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Sometimes you might think that debating Scripture is merely a euphemism for trying to figure out how we can justify the types of sins we happen to enjoy or gain some personal benefit from doing. On the other hand debating Scripture can be a good way to understand it.

    Some time back on - ahem - another Christian forum I started a thread arguing that abortion was Scripturally acceptable. It's not a view I personally hold, I struggle to see how abortion is morally equivalent to anything other than murder unless there are very real and very pressing reasons why it must be done (e.g. the mother will die if the pregnancy isn't terminated is an acceptable reason; "I can't afford childcare" is not), but an interesting way to test the validity of one view is to try and defend an opposing view as if you did believe in it. It was something of a surprise to see the assembled masses on that forum try one argument after another after another to derail the argument only to find everything they said brushed aside and demonstrated to not be relevant. (I was actually very relieved when a friend cut the argument down cold with Ex 21:22-25 which shows God putting value on the life of the unborn.

    Other times people may debate Scripture to consider different viewpoints and determine which one they consider has most merit. Just look at the variety of opinions regarding the timing of the rapture, tribulation, millennial reign etc - you can mix and match so many different options it gets bewildering at times. But different people have studied the texts and drawn different conclusions. Perhaps God designed it that way to keep us humble.
     
  2. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I get what you're saying. However, I stand by what I claimed. Some people "debate" scripture because they simply don't like what it states. For instance, I've seen homosexuals (some were unbelievers and others were gay Christians) claim that the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality in the New Testament... if it involves "homosexuals involved in loving and monogamous relationships." It only condemns "homosexual temple prostitution." ::) Umm, the New Testament makes no such distinction to various types of homosexual activity. It simply condemns homosexual activity, period. The mental gymnastics some people subject others to is sad but also kind of entertaining.
     
  3. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    I think a good 75% of believers I personally know, especially family, see Christianity as a system of morality only.

    Trouble is, this all to often results in sort of smug satisfaction that one is at least relatively righteous and a sneering disdain for those who simply fall short.

    Salvation gets buried or hidden.
     
  4. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    You don't get to determine their motivations for "debate".
    I guarantee you'd raise your fist against the Bible if you're daughter was raped on the doorstep of your church and your pastor facilitated the exchange of silver to you, so that your daughter could marry her assailant.

    I guaran-firetrucking-tee it.

    ... and this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to biblical moral absolutes that all of Western society completely ignores.
     
  5. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    As when Israel's sons killed all the men in a Hivite city for raping their sister.
     
  6. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    You were a Christian at one time. You do realize, right, that many things the Jews had to do or put up with that look very unpleasant or even unfair and wrong from our perspective are things Christians are not bound to? You bring up the example of a woman being sexually asssulted and being forced to marry the rapist with a dowry being paid for the "bride." I'll be the first to admit that doesn't sound right, but the Jews had to endure that, for whatever reason God decided that. However, Christians are not Jews.
     
  7. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    That's because in that culture, a raped woman would have been left to die, or killed for prostituting itself. Marrying your rapist is hardly ideal, and it's never claimed to be ideal, but it is better than the alternatives were.
     
  8. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    All I hear is excuses to obey your own morality, rather than the bibles. You'll excuse yourself for it, but not others.
     
  9. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    It's not "obeying my own morality." It's called "Christians are not bound to Judaism." That being the case, why would I follow the customs of the Jews when I'm not a Jew? I'm not required to as a Christian. So, then, explain why you believe I still should have to.
     
  10. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Not against the Bible, but surely I will have to put my fists deep into my pockets not to beat the you know what out of that pastor.

    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
    -- Mahatma Gandhi
     
  11. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Sure, there are people who simply debate to try and muddy the waters and gloss over the fact they are doing something that is mentioned in the Bible immediately after some variation of "Thou shalt not". But you can't automatically conclude that someone is trying to do that just because they are looking to understand exactly what the original text said, or because they are looking at the text in the light of the culture of the day, or whatever else.

    Certainly if someone is trying to demonstrate that something they happen to like doing isn't sinful there is at least the potential for their motives to be at least somewhat selfish. At the same time I think it's fair to say that someone considering whether a Biblical lifestyle would require some very sweeping changes to their current lifestyle would be within their rights to figure out just what was required.

    After all, just look how many people insist that Christians shouldn't drink/smoke/dance/whatever because, well, you know, it says so in the Bible and besides their pastor once said so. How is looking at what the actual text says to determine whether you can continue to drink beer any different to the homosexual looking at what the actual text says to determine whether they can continue to live with their same-sex partner? What matters is the intent rather than the specific activity under the microscope - if you're looking to find that elusive verse in the Bible that you can use to justify (activity) you might as well throw your Bible in the trash and live by your own code; if you're looking to the Bible to determine whether something is Scripturally acceptable with a view to making whatever changes are required to your life to live according to Scriptural principles then you're in a good place. And until we see how someone is conducting their exploration we really have no basis for assuming their motives.
     
  12. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I agree with much of what you say here, but, human nature in fallen man being what it is, I'm much more inclined to believe that when people debate scripture they do it with the intention, at least the majority of the time, to try to justify doing something they want to do even though others say they're not supposed to. Sorry, but when it comes to humanity, I'm a bit, well, cynical.
     

Share This Page