Free-Form Musings...I'll go first.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by IMINXTC, May 15, 2017.

  1. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I don't know those names, but the researcher mentioned how a lot of people talk about the NAR but don't really know what it is. I had heard of it before, particularly around the idea of Dominionism (which was embraced by Wagner). The key names that came up in this podcast were C. Peter Wagner (obviously), Cindi Jacobs, Dutch Sheets, Che Ahn, and Sean Feucht. I'd never even heard of these people before. On and before January 6, all these people were involved in rallies around the Capitol. On the 5th Che Ahn, gave a speech in DC that sounds way more inciting of violence than anything Trump said on the 6th.

    There were some things in there that was interesting, like the idea of the "Seven Mountains Mandate" which is that Christians' should be in charge of these areas of culture (politics, arts/sciences, commerce, education, and a couple others). On the surface it sounds a lot like the neo-Calvinism of Kuyper and Bavinck, who advocate that Christians need to be engaged in all spheres of human activity (as the presented does mention) but the NAR twist is that these spheres of human activity should be controlled/conquered and run in a top-down form, which is not what Kuyper was about.

    Then there is all the language of "strategic spiritual warfare"/territorial spirits.
     
  2. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    You can add Randy Clark and Bill Johnson to the list of names as well as just about anything to do with what evolved from the Kansas City Prophets, IHOP etc.

    Part of the issue with the NAR is that it isn't really a defined organisation as such, so it's pretty easy to make claims and pretty easy to deny claims. As you say the NAR twist is that Christians should become dominant in the spheres of the "seven mountains", and at least some of the teaching is that we need to dominate the seven mountains to get the world in order ready to hand it over for Christ's return. They also talk a lot about a great end-times awakening/revival, which seems to be more or less the polar opposite of what Revelation has to say about the end times.

    Sometimes I wonder if the NAR is related in some way to one of the beasts of Revelation. The beast that performs great signs and wonders would be a bit of a giveaway if they preached some totally different god but a person or a body that at least nominally claims allegiance to Yahweh wouldn't be so obvious, and their teachings certainly point in all sorts of kooky directions so they qualify on that front.
     
  3. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    I just checked, and it looks like spiritoferror.org now points to the author's blog page, hollypivec.com

    If you're interested in the NAR I'd suggest checking out what she has to say. From what I recall of reading her she seems to be fairly objective - she doesn't come across as the kind of blogger who sees something that may be little more than a misspoken word and starts howling about it.
     
  4. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Haven't heard it, but as I was intimately familiar with and occasionally had interaction with any number of the C.Peter Wagner devotees back in the day, nothing said in the podcast would probably surprise me.

    When you elevate man's opinion and feelings above the revealed truth of Scripture, you're always only one match or one Dixie cup away from Koresh/Waco or Jones/Jonestown.
     
  5. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Things are bound to get rough in post-covid City with the high & mighty tech sector vacating much of downtown. Drug crisis remains and homeless policies are inept. So many are falling through the cracks - little recourse. Spiritual outreach is poor to nil.
    More than one old aquaintence have recently died on the streets. Work is await'n.
     
  6. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Beloved PCs & office equipment - out of commssion for a while.[​IMG]
     
  7. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Just resting…

    praying for you brother
     
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  8. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Thank you much!
     
  9. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    It's also really helpful to your cause if you make grand proclamations and don't worry about trivial stuff like, you know, providing any evidence that things actually happened.

    Like the mystery of the toes that may or may not have been missing, and may or may not have regrown....
    https://www.hollypivec.com/blog/showmethetoes
     
  10. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Just call them false profits and be done with it…
     
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  11. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    The trouble is that so many people seem to follow them.

    The fact Bethel "church" is still operating at all and still spewing its toxic theology around the world in books and music says some very depressing things about the church.
     
  12. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

  13. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Yeah, we just passed through San Fran and camped up in Santa Rosa. On the north side of the Golden Gate Bridge there were some roads lined with RV's and trailers for people I assume are actually working but no living space. Lots and lots of homeless along the interstate.
     
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  14. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I've wondered why so many so-called prophets, never seem to get called out for their prophecies that fail. It appears that there is always a built in excuse for the prophecy to fail or to be foiled. And then they just move on to the next. And these huge prophecy sites work hand in glove with the NAR ideology.
     
  15. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Because that shows a lack of faith. Never mind how many failed prophecies someone delivers, anything less than absolute belief in them shows a lack of faith in God.

    If you haven't seen it before, check out the Elijah List online (something like elijahlist.com or theelijahlist.com) - if you want some classic examples of what prophecy doesn't look like it's full of them. The sad thing is people follow this stuff and believe the people writing are actually prophets.
     
  16. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Yes. The City is insane. As expected.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    How far out from city center do you have to live to get a one bedroom apartment for less than $2800 a month?
     
  18. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    $2800 will get you a studio in S.F.
    East Bay (Oakland, per example) will snag a 1bedroom with balcony at that rate.
    North Bay, 30 miles from the City has the best rates but lousy conditions. Vallejo, per example, just went bankrupt.
    Rates will be pressured downward as large tech layoffs continue.
     
  19. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Before even considering the massive layoffs and exodus in the tech sector, it is alarming to witness the damage left behind by the pandemic. Barring another similar upset, it seems likely that it will take years for some major cities to fully recover.
    Work-at-home seems here to stay though it has decimated tech corporate culture while doing relatively little to alleviate highway congestion. A death knell for key cities has been ringing.
     
  20. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    It seems to me that much of the damage was done by government rather than the virus.

    As you say, it will take years for cities to recover, if indeed they ever do recover. A city that is a tourist attraction (I'm thinking London, New York, Washington DC etc) has an advantage in that regard. Unless there's a reason for a tourist to visit a city it's hard to see how a city based on nothing more than lots of people wanting to live in the same area for work can do much other than decay, especially when working remotely becomes a bigger and bigger thing.

    Do you see highway congestion as being exactly the same as before, or spread out more during the day? I was always aware when I was working in an office full-time that congestion was bad if you were trying to get to work for 8am, horrendous if you were trying to get to work for 9am, and all but non-existent if you could delay your start time until 930am. If more people figured they don't need to be at the office at a specific time and simply spread their travelling throughout the day you'd see everything being busier, and if only half as many people tried to start work at 9am you might not even notice the reduced congestion.
     
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