YE'rs have scientists in all disciplines as well, who happen to see things differently. Yes we are in the minority. I don't think that it should negate the position tho, based on this aspect. When I read the worlds view of events, they are in stark contrast to the Biblical version. I personally feel ( just my opinion here ) that in many cases, OE'rs have capitulated to the worlds view, as its so strong and to stray from the party line in certain circles is akin to a professional suicide of sorts. But we all have our reasons for believe what we do, and I would support everyone's right to believe what they want. OE'rs and TE's have their reasons for believing this, and that OK with me![/QUOTE] The Earth's sky is red-orange. Prove me wrong. You'll provide a metric ton of evidence that the sky is, in fact, blue. You'll explain how my evidence isn't proof of an always red sky, but can be explained by...... and that's the point where I'd say "yeah but you've just capitulated to the world's view". I'll tell you that you're forcing yourself to see the sky as blue due to communal peer pressure and a natural rebellion to God's order. Consider: Nearly everyone in the scientific field couldn't care less how much contrast their observations have with the Bible. The only thing they're "capitulating" to is the testable repeatable observations and models created off of old earth assumptions. Their findings aren't predicated on moral turpitude, but rather what can be observed objectively. I'm sure Teddy could explain how OE models are *especially* important to geology, and the extraction of minerals.
I think RK is saying that a literal interpretation can not claim a 6000 year old earth because that claim is solely based on the calculation of Bishop Ussher based on the Biblical genealogies - an interpretation of the text that relies on several assumptions. Genesis certainly does not make any claim to a start date.
The Earth's sky is red-orange. Prove me wrong. You'll provide a metric ton of evidence that the sky is, in fact, blue. You'll explain how my evidence isn't proof of an always red sky, but can be explained by...... and that's the point where I'd say "yeah but you've just capitulated to the world's view". I'll tell you that you're forcing yourself to see the sky as blue due to communal peer pressure and a natural rebellion to God's order. Consider: Nearly everyone in the scientific field couldn't care less how much contrast their observations have with the Bible. The only thing they're "capitulating" to is the testable repeatable observations and models created off of old earth assumptions. Their findings aren't predicated on moral turpitude, but rather what can be observed objectively. I'm sure Teddy could explain how OE models are *especially* important to geology, and the extraction of minerals.[/QUOTE] Hey brother, I can’t prove you wrong, because your right! Looks red/orange to me! [ lots of geo-engineered ‘clouds’ in there too ] I would agree with you, most don’t care what the Bible has to say on history, mans condition or current/past events, heck, it does not even enter their equation! Thats the part of the problem. . The way mankind has viewed the cosmos & the earth has changed over the last 150 years, and we have done about a 180. Things were viewed much differently in the past. Some of what the old timers held to was wrong, but some was very much right. I have no problem with ‘science’ or their method per say. God created ‘science’ and all the wonderful mechanics and repeatable interactions of the physical and chemical universe. But some of what modern day science attempts to explain is off the mark. When their explanations come in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches, that’s when my antenna perk up. Sure there are some grey areas that none of us can answer, but some of what they teach is out in left field, Biblically speaking that is. I would be curious to know exactly why one needs a particular OE view of the world to find certain minerals? Ted? If the Bible is True, there is more to reality than merely the physical or natural. Something “ new” [ newly created ] can appear old. Jesus turned water into wine in seconds, can we make wine that fast? How old is a freshly made 30 year oldish man? God did create a physical universe, fully functional & repeatable ( for the most part,) but He has punctuated it with supernatural & unrepeatable external power in the past ( and probably still today Truth be known ) I do think that the world can be viewed just as easily from the YE perspective, as it can from an OE perceptive.
Solely, based on just that ? ( Bishop ?) LOL. We have far more evidence than that. I am claiming that a literal view of Genesis can be absolutely rectified with current scientific knowledge. Genesis drives stakes into the ground that set markers that are very hard to move. One cannot escape the young earth implications of the text of Genesis. If nothing else, it’s a top view that has much evidence in its corner. Not unlike the multi-view escatogly issue. How many views do we have now in escatogly ?
Great, its settled. The sky is not blue, its orange. What the bible has to say shouldn't matter when it comes to observable truth: unless the bible is lying. If the Bible told us "have faith, the sky is orange, and never in all the days of creation shall the sky be blue" then you'd have a massive problem if you walked outside to a clear blue sky. This is the problem the YE crowd gets into when they truly contend with the mass of evidence for an old earth. How did we find out the old things were wrong? "The earth was created in order to appear to appear far older than it actually is" - I like to call this "Lying Cheater" model of creation.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between speculating on a future that hasn't happened yet, based on some predictions that may or may not be properly understood, and observable physical evidence about something in the past and present. I'm not knocking anybody, because bias and filters are absolutely a thing with us human beings, which means that very often, we see what we want to see, choose to see, or have been preprogrammed to see via suggestive means. None of us are bias-free, and that's okay. The only thing that matters is that we're willing to be wrong, know nothing, and let what is right in front of us speak for itself without trying so hard to interpret it one way or the other. We don't need to explain everything. We can be free to let others come to their own conclusions. Because the past, present and future are firmly in God's hands, just like they always have been. The reason I like this board so much (versus ... ahem ... others) is because of the great amounts of respect people show here even in disagreement. I think it's more important how we disagree, because it's a given that we are going to disagree about a lot of trivial and not-so-trivial things. I also think God designed it this way, to help us learn how to get over ourselves and learn what unity and love are all about. So I'm not necessarily looking for agreement and working towards "once we find the true truth, we're all gonna get along, finally", but "I can still choose to get along, even if we never agree on what the 'true truth' actually looks like," perhaps even because God Himself has chosen to hide it from us until we get our collective act together, because there are more important matters to attend to. Getting our ego out of the way is hard work, and many fail at it because they lack the will to do it, since it's in our nature to have a felt need to be right. 'scuse me while I wax philosophical ... you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.
Yes, Ussher was a bisop of the Anglican Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher Anyway, physical evidence is not what I am getting at, nor was RK. Genesis nowhere dates itself internally. Any attempt to calculate on genealogies, as Ussher did, is based on certain assumptions and also with known secular dates with the desruction of the first temple (as far as I recall). Yes I know what you are claiming, but as I said above, Genesis is not making the claim.
If there is one thing I truly enjoy about this place is how, although not agreeing on every point, we still care for each other. Well, for the most part. Not sure about Aaron. LOL. J/K Aaron.
It’s all good. I know we don’t all agree on everything. It doesn’t make us any less Christian because of that.
I’m not completely sure yet what I believe as far as how old the earth is. From what I understand, the Hebrew word used in Genesis to denote for “day” is actually a word that is really generalized for time, that it isn’t limited to a literal 24 hour span of time. It could represent months, years, eons of years.