No. I don't believe it has limits. I do believe though that a lot of people have the wrong conception of what Grace is. It is NOT a license to sin, as many have labeled it.
Maybe I should have asked: "is there any limits to God's Grace after it's accepted". That in it's self is an open question. No, I believe that... There's those who think they can accept salvation, keep sinning, and not receive any consequences for the sin. Is that what you're saying?
Romans 5.... 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Grace has been defined by people smarter than me as Gods gift, in that we don't get what we deserve, but get what we don't deserve. Not a free ticket to sin. God forbid.
Exactly. This is where the chapter break between Romans 5 & 6 can throw us off. Paul says where sin abounds, grace abounds more. Paul anticipates people saying that we can just sin. He says in chapter 6.... What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
OK then, next question. Do you believe God would remove His Grace from someone once it's given in Salvation? I already know some of your answers. I just want this question to be under better controlled circumstances than on other boards.
Tim, I think what I quoted in Romans still wouldn't change. Where sin abounds, grace abounds more. Paul then anticipates the person saying we can sin all we want then. He says "God forbid" or "may it never be" or however a version translates μη γενοιτο. So I don't think God removes it. But I don't think that means consequence doesn't happen. The relationship is out of whack. They aren't walking in grace. Grace has an impact that Paul mentions to Titus. 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. In verse 12 we are taught certain things: deny ungodliness & worldly lists...live soberly, righteously and godly...looking for the appearance of Christ. Who teaches us this? Well, the subject of that verb is grace! True grace brings holiness, not sinfulness. A person truly experiencing grace does not want to abuse it. So I would advise such a person to really examine themselves to discern whether they've truly experienced the grace of God.
No Joe, it doesn't change one iota, and I don't believe God ever removes it... And of course consequences do happen to God's children through chastisement. It's the falling from grace so many people adhere to that really bugs me. Either they're sheep or they're not. John 10:27 & 28. There is no if's. What's the term they use? "Limited Atonement"? That concept in its self limits God's Grace don't you think? Whenever I think about that concept it always takes me back to John 10... John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. So then my problem is why do so many believe that God's Grace is limited with plain and clear passages like this one? Where they who believe loosing salvation use more obscure passages that actually speak of the destruction of the flesh to base their doctrine.
Tim, I agree with your answer. I'm sure why you put the phrase "limited atonement" in your answer, but we appear to agree. I've quoted John 10:28 to many about the security of salvation.
No. Grace can't ever be removed because it's as essential to our existence as oxygen. If God were to ever remove His grace, we'd all be immediately incinerated and God would have zero humans left. The coming of Christ as a (hu)man and the death and resurrection of Christ as a (hu)man would have been 100% pointless. Grace is a 100% essential ingredient for God's creation to be able to function as designed. It all started with grace, runs on grace, and will always depend on grace, all the time. By "grace" I mean God's foundational and essential goodwill towards His creation which He called "good" and "very good" when He created everything. By "grace" I mean God's unrelenting motivation and determination to preserve that which He has created, according to His own good pleasure. By "grace" I mean God's very power and force of creation itself. It's all grace, 100% of the time, always, towards everyone, given by our Father by whose grace the sun shines on the just and the unjust and whose provision and goodwill towards us all are always freely present 100%, because our dependency upon Him is also always 100% real (whether acknowledged or not is immaterial, because I'm talking about reality from God's point of view here). If grace doesn't match need down to its very depth and very core, then it's not grace. And God's grace 100% matches our need, always, and always has. Because our need of God is absolute, our need of God's grace is absolute. Therefore grace can't be limited and it can't be removed, ever. It's the very power everything runs on. Literally everything, all the time. If God weren't infinitely graciously inclined towards all of His creation all the time ... then fuhgeddaboutit, because we're done.
1. I don't think the concept of limited atonement has anything to do with eternal security. In fact, Arminians that would hold to perseverance of the saints (i.e., the possibility of apostasy) typically would not hold to limited atonement. 2. If one believes in unlimited atonement and universal grace, then in my mind, God's grace is always available unless rejected, which could be irrevocable. So Grace is not something that is removed in the event of apostasy, but is something that is available but irrevocably rejected.
And for the record, I am not about to get into a debate about eternal security v apostasy. Others may if they wish, but aside from academic needle threading, I've never found the discussion to be remotely edifying.