There is a wide diversity of denominations represented here. Without debate, I'd like to start out with asking each of you what the roles of women are in your congregations "today". We can discuss the scriptural support vs. lack of support shortly thereafter if that's what you want. I'm just wanting to read where all of you may differ or agree. Cool with you???
The church we are now attending, as far as I know, women serve as deacons at least. There are none serving in an elder role, but I don't know if that means they are not permitted, or there just have not been any chosen. I have not really asked this question yet. Our previous church, of the same denomination (Christian Reformed) had women servng in both elder and deacon roles. I don't believe there are restrictions on female pastors, and that decision is made on a congregation by congregation basis, rather than at the synodical level. In this church we had a female member intern as a pastor and preached at least once. She was called elsewhere once she had completed her studies and was eligible for call.
1Corinthians 14: 33,34,35 33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak ; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35. And if they learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the Church. 1 Timothy 2: 10-15 10. But ( which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11. Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to, be in silence. 13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15. Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and Holiness with sobriety. I was taught that the Bible says what it means and means what it says. So to me it's saying that women shouldn't preach, or teach men. I've never seen or read anything in the Bible that says women shouldn't teach women and children, or that they shouldn't hold a position in the Church.
The churches I've attended had had women serving in every role from senior (lead?) pastor to greeter.
The church that I'm a member of is complementarian including the deacons. All elders and deacons are males. Women do lead studies that are designated as "women's Bible study".
In our former church, women we're ordained pastors and there were also prophets and deacons. In the church we are currently attending, women are found in various leadership roles, but not as pastors.
Our church has female elders and deacons. Female preachers occasionally preach. Denomination ordains female pastors.
I have no problems with women being in leadership in church. The director of Small Groups for our campus is a woman, and she is an excellent leader.
OK then, how many of you think that Paul was only referring to the women's role at the time when he wrote: 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. and why?
I believe the Christian Reformed Church is fairly similar to Presbyterian in many ways, but come from the Dutch Reformed tradition.
I wish Mark Edward still had his page up because I thought he had quite a good essay on this subject.
Heading out to a meeting but thought I'd throw this out until I get back. That passage is specific to the particular fight that Timothy was having in Ephesus, and not a universal principal to be applied across the Church. Ephesus was the center for Artemis worship, the female fertility god. There was a particular strain of Gnosticism centered in Ephesus that taught that (a) since flesh was evil, then (b) having children was inherently evil, and that Eve was the first created and that Adam came from Eve. They taught that women were the natural authorities as a result. Paul was telling Timothy to not let any such silliness be taught in Ephesian churches, or to allow the women a chance to spread such mess. The greek actually says that “women will be made whole/fulfilled” in childbirth, a direct contradiction of the gnostic teaching. Certainly, no one believes that women are saved by giving birth, now do we? There are plenty of other passages in the NT where we see women speaking, even prophesying, in church, so we can't have A is true and non-A is true at the same time, as TrustGzuz would say.
Basically what RK said (well, and Paul's argument doesn't make much sense to me in light of 'women shouldn't teach men' arguments). See the section on 1 Timothy 2 here (I don't see the point in summarizing what Wright has already written): http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm. Longish version: [youtube]Mwj287xr0uQ[/youtube] Short version: [youtube]QaVVXleoAdU[/youtube]
Off the top of my head, I know that, in the book of Acts, Priscilla and Lydia were woman who were in leadership positions. Many even consider Priscilla and apostle. And Lydia led a church at her home.
That link is defunct On a side note, having recently read NT Wright's "Surprised by Hope", I'm definitely a fan.
Acts 16:11-15 & 40 ESV 11 So, setting sail from Troas, we made a direct voyage to Samothrace, and the following day to Neapolis, 12 and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the[d] district of Macedonia and a Roman colony. We remained in this city some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15 And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us. 40 So they went out of the prison and visited Lydia. And when they had seen the brothers, they encouraged them and departed.
And this is from Philippians 4:1-3 Therefore, my brothers, whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm thus in the Lord, my beloved. 2 I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. 3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Paul had no problem working side by side with woman. They are part of his fellow workers.