Coronavirus - tinfoil hat time :)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tango, Apr 11, 2020.

  1. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    What I find interesting is the ominous prospect of the world being, in effect, held hostage by the process of discovery, development, manufacture and dissemination of a vaccine.
    In the interim, various demographics will likely be forced into seemingly permanent restrictions and many popular social functions and venues will diminish or change radically.
    Perhaps the crushing throngs of city dwellers and commuters will give way to a permanent increase in work at home options and a decrease in traffic.
    Etc...
     
  2. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Not even close.

    Looking at county-by-county figures for my state the worst case looks like about 2%. And even then that isn't reliable because the denominator is unknown and many reports reckon it's much higher than believed, and the numerator is too high because of presumption of a death being COVID related. As I mentioned above a friend had a relative who died of a heart attack but it was recorded as a CoVID death. Apparently no fewer than four county coroners are disputing the state's official figures.

    When the numerator is overstated and the denominator is understated by an unknown amount all we know is that the mortality is some amount lower than what the headline figure suggests.

    When some reports suggest that for every known case there could be 50-100 unknown cases, if they are right even a suggested 5% mortality rate starts to look like it could be as low as 0.05%.
     
  3. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    With protests in many states against the lockdown I wonder how long it will be before either things open up or the protests turn to riots. I read a report this afternoon that the Michigan state legislature is looking to strip the governor of some of her powers because of her overreach.
     
  4. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    This is a survivalists wet dream. How come they are the ones complaining the most.
     
  5. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    True survivalists don't protest.

    It's like concealed carry... if someone knows you are concealed carrying, you've missed the point.

    If you are a true apocalyptic survivalist, if anyone other than your clan/oikos/tribe/family/survival unit know it, you're dead.

    The folks protesting are protesting against the unconstitutional usurpation of personal liberty by politicians hungry for power that they believe they can scare enough steeple into giving to them.
     
  6. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    I need to find the article that suggested the mortality rate in the US was between 0.1 - 0.2% average, with 90% of the deaths occurring in people who had a pre-existing condition and something like 50% occurring in the over-70s.

    If you're under about 50 and don't have pre-existing medical conditions, it seems the chances are extremely high that if you get the virus (which isn't a given) you'll be just fine. But hey, there's an economy to crash so let's focus on the fact a few more people died today, because life before the coronavirus appeared was 100% risk-free.
     
  7. Hugo Clanton

    Hugo Clanton Member

    The threat clear! But, I believe the panic among people is driven harder and harder by irresponsible media. They are selling hard the only thing currently on their hands. Some are also busy pushing their pet propaganda in garb of pandemic news.

    Governments are merely reacting to pandemonium. They are actually in hard place. They have to take hard decisions with political implications. First time I am sympathetic to politicians in governments. They push hard for aggressive measures and people protest for freedom. They are soft, they get blamed for deaths. Oppositions and hostile media houses are playing it both ways. They are protesting either way the governments goes.
     
  8. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Check the official Georgia Co is website

    go all the way to the bottom for stats by demographic and underlying medical condition
     
  9. TristainLL

    TristainLL New Member

    Very well said. I always try to avoid the media and look straight towards the numbers
     
  10. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    I read an article today that compared Japan to the US. It started by noting that Japan is very densely populated and has a lot of old people but didn't have anywhere near the death rate as the US, and looked at why.

    The author wrote that in Tokyo people travel by train and then walk. I remember living in the city and walking all over the place - public transport is there to get you a lot of the way and then you walk. Often I'd walk the whole way because public transport was unpleasant to use. The key thing is that just getting around involves taking at least some form of exercise. Compare and contrast to the US where people will drive their car 100 yards so they can park right outside the next store in a strip mall rather than risking burning a few calores by walking it. I've seen people drive to the store when it is literally across the road from their house - it probably takes them longer to wait for the garage door to open and to reverse out into the street than it would have taken to just walk across the road.

    And then there's the question of diet. Compare and contrast freshly made food with quality ingredients with the people wait in their cars to order fat-laden garbage from McDonalds and a dozen similar outlets. So not only are they taking in a load of dietary trash but they are sitting idle in their cars, breathing the fumes from all the other cars sitting idling, while they wait for their dietary garbage.
     
  11. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    This reminds me of a comment I read a while back about three types of people. I forget the details but the gist of it was something like this:

    Type 1 people are prepared for things to go wrong as a matter of routine. They aren't necessarily doomsday survivalists, they just keep their own supply of food. Maybe they lived through a situation where they couldn't get out for a while due to weather or illness, but either way they have enough supplies on hand to ride out a problem. When the supply chain is interrupted these people will be just fine.

    Type 2 people are aware that problems may exist and are ready to stock up if things start to look bad. When it's clear there's a problem they are the first in line at the store buying enough to tide them through what they think is coming. They will fight with other Type 2 people for supplies.

    Type 3 people assume everything will be just fine until it isn't, then desperately try to get their hands on something because the chances are they'll be at the store too late to get anything. Type 3 people hate Type 2 people for getting there first. Most Type 3 people don't even know Type 1 people exist.
     
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  12. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

  13. Hugo Clanton

    Hugo Clanton Member

    Yes, People are becoming less and less physically active and consuming more and more calories. The result of less physical activity and unhealthy diet will eventually show!
     
  14. Hugo Clanton

    Hugo Clanton Member

    Perfect classification. The last line gets me!

     
  15. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    One thing that always amazes me in the US is just how fat some people are. When you see people who are so morbidly obese they could lose half their body weight and still be morbidly obese, eating their own body weight in ice cream and popcorn, it makes me wonder why they do it.

    It's the only place I've been where tipping the scales at over 4-500lb or more doesn't carry a huge stigma. Most places I've seen rein in weight gain simply because it becomes difficult to buy clothes. In the US it that doesn't seem to be an issue.
     
  16. Hugo Clanton

    Hugo Clanton Member

    Yup, Weight scene in US is scary. According to the OECD and Nation Master, the following top 10 countries are listed as having the highest obesity rates worldwide.

    1. United States: 30.6%
    2. Mexico: 24.2%
    3. United Kingdom: 23%
    4. Slovakia: 22.4%
    5. Greece: 21.9%
    6. Australia: 21.7%
    7. New Zealand: 20.9%
    8. Hungary: 18.8%
    9. Luxembourg: 18.4%
    10. Czech Republic: 14.8%

    Avg weight of Male in US is 88 Kg while for female is 76 KG, which are highest by far.
     
  17. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Weight in isolation doesn't say much and simply looking at how many people are classed as obese only tells part of the story. Jonny Wilkinson, a member of the England rugby team, had a BMI that indicated he was borderline obese.

    The thing that strikes me most about the US is the number of people who are just staggeringly large. People who are so overweight they need mobility scooters to get around, and who still eat the biggest portions of ice cream and popcorn you can imagine. The size in itself isn't necessarily something that can be helped - it's easy to see how mobility issues cause weight gain as well as the reverse - but if you have mobility issues and weigh as much as a small elephant it's probably not the best idea to eat your own body weight in popcorn.
     
  18. Hugo Clanton

    Hugo Clanton Member

    If people were sensible, things wouldn't have gone that far. They let situation worsen till it affects mobility says something. But, Strangely such situations also fail to wake up some. That's something difficult to digest.

    This just made me think what I often wonder, Humans are the only species that are fool/greedy/stubborn enough to behave nonchalantly in situation that put their life own at risk. E.g. Eating Habits, Driving, Jaywalking, Behaviors in national disaster/pandemics etc. You won't find All other species behaving in such a way.
     
  19. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    I can't say I have seen many other species driving although not very many species respect any concept of crossing the road in designated areas. Even when the sign clearly says "Deer crossing" the deer still go ahead and cross wherever they want.
     
  20. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    No other species has the power to reject God.
     

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