Scriptures like Matthew 5:10-11, 1 Peter 4:12-14, Luke 6:22, 2nd Corinthians 12:10, indicate we’re to “rejoice” (which, by necessity, means we are to look favorably upon and “like”) when we’re mistreated or face trials due to the actions of others.
Maybe coming out on the other end of this most recent anger issue regarding my injury, proper care and of all things my employers errors with my payroll-- I feel very victimized-- I mean because people did not do their jobs right or take responsibility? Admit there could have been an error? I remember now--months down the line, after acting out and being angry toward those that made these errors (docking my pay when I do not owe any money due to their mistakes and struggling to put gas in my car, food on my table) who will not admit these mistakes that I am called to be merciful and I think maybe I told you at one time you may also be called to this same thing-- This trial is about more than what I see-- it is about more than what makes logical sense... It is about more than the plans I had made before I was hurt.. These plans I had to eliminate harm that I no longer wished to tolerate...It isn't about me, but I made it about me-- and then blamed God for messing up everything I had planned. You or I may think, this road is harder than all others hard roads...but if the road is hard, then He is carrying me or you, and sheilding in many ways we could have been destroyed and were not- It is the recognition that maybe, I am called in some tiny way that matters to no one but Him and those I am called to serve--- Praising Him in the Storm, trusting Him when people fail ME---having even a subtle purpose by doing what He has called me to. Prayer, Love, Forgiveness. I might change my mind tomorrow-- I DO know my anger gets in the way of the greater good, and that IS my hard road. Peace brother-- I have cried more lately and making attempts to surrender to His will-- I don't have to like it, but He knows everything..I may be overjoyed in the end, I think that is how His rewards work. I could be poor, but rich. P.S. I have asked for opportunities to share Him, and I have fallen to the difficulties living here on earth. Opportunities don't come when I want them to, when everything "I" think is going great, faith is great...Everything is on His timing, and so, I have failed and recognize--He HAS to hold me up...it is not about MY strength or will at this point but His mercy.
Matthew 5.10 20 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 1 Peter 4.12-14 12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Luke 6.22 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. 2 Corinthians 12.10 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. I don't see any mention of 'liking' persecution. Where are you reading that we're to like it? I don't see any mention of 'enjoying' persecution. Where are you reading that we're to enjoy it? I don't see any mention of 'relishing' persecution. Where are you reading that we're to relish it? What I do read, is (1) persecution sucks, but (2) it's a sign of your being in the Lord, and for that reason take refuge in the fact that you are persecuted for your faith. 'Be happy' in persecution and be even happier when the Lord returns (or you return to the Lord). That is, these are encouragements about a reality for Christians that sucks: persecution is a sign of faith, a confirmation of identity, and it's not fun. There's nothing to be happy about except what it points to for the believer: Jesus. You've expressed this thinking about Christianity before. Is it the idea of rejoicing in persecution that bothers you, or loving those who do you wrong?
Both, actually. So, what you’re saying is that it’s “rejoice” DESPITE persecution, not “rejoice” BECAUSE OF persecution?
Looks like the thread has gone a few different directions. I'm not sure my answer to your original question will have much value given where this has gone, but I can still give it if you're interested.
Sure. I’m interested in what you have to say. I’m always interested in why people do what they do. But, only if you’re ok with doing it. It’s just my pesonal curiosity and you have no real obligation to say anything.
Story gets harder to tell as years go by. It was a slow transition. No definitive moments, but years of definitive moments back to back. Also, I don't want to write a novel. EXPERIENCE - I got real honest about how I experienced Christianity. I spent my entire Christian life pretty depressed because everyone around me talked about "talking to God", "feeling God's presence", "hearing God", etc. I never felt anything like that. I started exploring why in college. At that time my father said something like "if truth is true, then it endures scrutiny, so test it". Around this time my porn addiction really started kicking into high gear. My life was school, work, porn, prayer, bible study. NOTHING else. REAL LIFE - After school, into the work world. Work, porn, prayer. NOTHING else. - Into my 20's, I start asking questions, desperate to find the Christianity everyone around me said they experienced, but I didn't. Answers to inquiries came in 2 flavors: Bumper sticker platitudes & cruel character assassination. Harder I searched, the worse these two paradigms got. ROCK BOTTOM - Fast forward to my "rock bottom" event with porn. I show up at my churches stoop gibbering like an idiot. Swear I would do anything the church asked from me... just as long as I could overcome the addiction. Simultaneously, my fiance (now my wife) demanded I get secular therapy. TREACHERY - Doing counselling through church, & secular therapy in parallel. *Strongly* resist the secular therapy, bit can't deny how *right* my therapist is. Church counselling remains FiretrUCKING idiot metaphors & platitudes. Christians that find out I'm taking secular therapy go for the jugular. You're not a "real Christian" if you're doing that. SOBRIETY - Sobriety. With *hours* of my day free, I get back to trying to seeking Christianity. The pain from the church's condemnation of my recovery colors my approach. I'm colder & more calculating in my exploration. Again, the deeper I go, the more poisonous, personal, & malicious the answers. This bled over onto BF for those who remember around Halloween, years and years ago. I decided I knew nothing. Clean slate. I had to make or break faith. I gave up all knowledge & started exploring with a fresh mind. But when I pulled out the "basics" questions, I was shocked to find the answers empty. More bumper sticker platitudes, offered with malice. Mods at "you know where" start lacing into me for my questions. MINING - Read my bible cover to cover. It says NOTHING I was raised to believe it says (at least not obviously). I read it again. Nothing. Its just a confusing mess of books by multiple authors. Without commentaries telling me how to interpret it, I just get confusion, disconnection, and most importantly: SILENCE AND EMPTINESS. By this time I'm up to about 6 to 8 hours of prayer a day... absolutely desperate to find an answer that validates the faith I thought I had. PROPHECY - Have the most intense dream of my life. I go to church where Pastor babbles incoherently about prophesy. "I don't understand". The congregation bar the doors and imprison me. They torture me. Pull out my fingernails, feed me poison, beat me, deprive me of sleep, starve me. I know I'm dreaming but I can't wake. It literally (literally literally) feels like I live month/years in my dream. The smell of puke an excrement permeates my entire being. Day after day I'm brought before the congregation, beaten and disheveled, told to repeat the articles of faith. I refuse. Back into prison. More torture. Ages later I wake up (in dream) & church is empty. Walk out the doors, walk to my home. Family doesn't recognize my aged & shattered body. I wake up, screaming, weeping, and tearing at my eyes and hair. Mini-mental breakdown. Take a week off work. Years later I still can't shake the horror. It STILL get tears thinking about it. - Spiritual low point, another idiot-lunatic-prophecy threads starts up on "you know where". I challenge the "prophet". I get called out by "elders" telling me I have to wait and see, & how DARE I challenge it. I throw down a wager. Prophecy comes true, I continue seeking. Prophecy is false, I denounce Christianity as a sham religion. Prophecy is false. CONTINUATION - Get busy with life for a couple years. Satisfied drinking a tall mug of D.G.A.F about Christianity every morning. First time I've felt peace in my life. Get in an argument with my dad about something. He angrily asks "why don't you see the Jesus in this". In my stunned silence, he spills out more empty Christian babble-dee-gook empty meaningless linguistic signalling. "I don't understand" I say. HOURS long lecture from my dad. I blow my lid. I tell him everything: my addiction, my search, my recovery. I tear out a fistful of my hair and swear an oath against the church. I denounce Christianity and expel 30 years worth of emptiness and rage. My dad is shocked, can't understand, starts speaking more empty platitudes. More hours, cornered, listening to bla bla bla <platitude / give it to jesus / claim the victory> bla bla SPIKE - Over the next couple years, I start a business, have kids, get busy with life. Take on a business partner who gets me into significant legal trouble. Facing bankruptcy at minimum and (to my non-lawyer mind) possibly even jail time. Still praying. Still silence. Dad blows up at me about "not giving it to Jesus". Here again, cornered by my dad, who's angrily reciting the Christian-ese bumper sticker script. He's furious. I walk out. I spend the night walking the freezing winter streets... praying to be hit by a car, or overcome by hypothermia. 1st time in my life I consider suicide. END GAME I decide to endure. Wife and I go home with our kids. The whole event changes everything about me. My wife says she can't recognize me anymore (when we started dating, I was still "hardcore Christian"). I realize my dream has come true. I realized I've been touched by the disgusting, lecherous hand of prophecy, and I'll never be rid of its foul stench. THIS is all that's left when I ponder Christianity & my past faith. Wreckage and perpetual burning. I'm not sure *precisely* where in that mess I crossed the line from Christian to anti-Christian. But I'm there. SUMMARY It starts with a sense that you don't experience what *EVERYONE* else tells you is universal. It deepens as you start asking questions, detached from how you were raised / got there. A rift forms, and accelerates its growth with the hostility the church will meet any "insider" with questions of faith. Where it goes for you, my friend, I have no idea. I just wish you peace with whatever the end is. We contend with each other a TON. Its no secret that we'll probably never be bro-friends, but always remember I DO consider you a kindred spirit.
PARADOX I shouldn't say ^all that^ and not also say this. Even today I feel like Christianity offers the best model of man's true nature. Failed, selfish, broken, and requiring unceasing effort to be virtuous. I also feel like the (non-religious) norms are pretty sound. It presents an excellent library of virtues. Everything beyond that? (cosmology, divinity, soteriology, history, etc) I D.G.A.F.
Thanks for sharing your story in the first place, quite some ride. I don't have answers nor do I want to criticize you but what strikes through out your whole post (emphasized above) is that you never felt that God touched your feelings. In your search for God, may I ask, were you expecting something specific? Check out - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis I have it sometimes. 5-6 years ago I dreamed I was in hell. After the first shock I realized it wasn't so bad overthere. Then a demon started to beat me with his wings until I could not take it any longer and waked up, fortunately. While I realize it's total nonsense it leaves its marks, I get that.
Welcome to my world, but only for totally different reasons. Yet I still count myself a child of God.
Almost the opposite. I was just looking for something/anything. Don't know if I'm articulating that well, but I didn't have a specific pre-condition, like waiting to speak in tongues or something. And something else I didn't integrate into my story: over that time frame I drifted between dozens of variations of Christianity, all of which demanded some pre-condition for being genuine: circumcision, tongues, manifested miracles, abstention from alcohol, etc. For a long time I would have been satisfied with a version of Christianity that I wasn't pre-disqualified for.