I think people have made water baptism unnecessarily complicated. The act itself accomplishes nothing. It is done simply because God wants it done. He requires obedience from us. Not everything God requires of us is something that has to “accomplish” anything, though. Sometimes it’s JUST about obeying Him, showing that we surrender to Him as God and being obedient to Him. Baptism is merely a symbolic act done before others to show our dedication to Him. It doesn’t save us. Christ’s death on the cross is ALL that is required to save us. The thief on the cross wasn’t baptized before he died, and, yet, Jesus made it clear he would be saved for his faith in Him. This demonstrates that water baptism doesn’t save us, but, yes, we should get baptized at some point in our walk, simply because God says to.
How’d you come to that conclusion? Possibly. That’s a nice Baptist view conclusion. How’d you come to it? I think everyone agrees on that.
I personally believe God sometimes has us do things simply because He’s God and He expects us to obey Him. I don’t think EVERYTHING He requires of us is to be done because it necessarily “accomplishes something.” I’ve seen nothing in scripture that indicates baptism is anything other than one of our public ways of acknowledging our faith and allegiance to God. And our obedience to Him because He tells us to do it. It doesn’t save us. Christ dying on the cross did that. It isn’t necessary to “sanctify” us or something. The Holy Spirit does that. It can’t “cleanse us from sin.” Christ’s shed blood did that. So, like I said, we do it...because God tells us to. He may have a reason He wants it done, other than just from obedience, but, if He does, He didn’t indicate why in His Word, at least that I’ve seen, anyway.
I just haven’t seen anything in scripture that indicates baptism is required for salvation. For sanctification. For spiritual endurance. The only thing that makes sense to me is because we are to obey God. He says to do it. Maybe we do it because, since we publicly declare our faith before others, it’s a way to hold ourselves more accountable to others in the faith? “Hey, you publicly declared yourself to be a Christian by going through the effort of getting baptized. Then you need to act like a Christian.” I don’t know. That’s just an idea that popped into my head.
Not right off the top of my head. Do YOU have any idea why God tells us to be baptized in water? Does it serve a purpose? If so, what is it?
IMO, there are no Scriptures that indicate that baptism is an inert ritual doing nothing... but a number of Scriptures that together suggests the opposite. Thank you! I'll try to get back to this thread tomorrow... Blessings! - Josiah .
There are many things I have no idea why God asks of me, but I do them because He hasn't failed me yet, nor taken me down the wrong path. When He let's me down, I'll let you know.
In other words, you have no idea WHY He tells us to be baptized. Why didn’t you just say that? To clarify, I have no idea why, either. All I’ve been asserting is that baptism isn’t for salvation. Christ’s death alone accomplishes that.
I’m not saying water baptism is “meaningless.” I’m saying it doesn’t provide salvation. From what I’ve always understood, the death of Jesus on the cross alone provided salvation. Do you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation?
I believe Jesus is the Savior, and salvation is found nowhere else. But I believe that God need not grant the gift of faith always immediately (DIRECTLY, not involving any means, people, etc.), I think God often uses means, tools, instruments in order to convey this gift. See my post above on "Means of Grace." No, as I've written a few times in this thread, Lutherans do NOT hold that baptism is necessary for salvation in the sense that God is impotent to grant salvation if baptism is not administered since God is not limited to using only that tool (or indeed, any tool). However, we should not forbid baptism any more than we should forbid loving or teaching or evangelism or mission work. But just because God is not MANDATED to use a means of grace does not render such impotent and unusuable. I'm truly sorry that I've not finished this..... between my new son and new job, I've just been hard pressed for time. But I WILL get to this. Meanwhile I have several points published here, the "groundwork" largely in place. Thank you for your welcome, respect and patience. - Josiah .
I never said I knew why, but I wasn't the one who made the statement "The act itself accomplishes nothing." Then starts backpedaling when asked for clarification. So if your assertion NOW "is that baptism isn't for salvation", why didn't you just say that. So are you now going back on your original statement?