Colorado Baker Case: Baker wins

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RabbiKnife, Jun 4, 2018.

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  1. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    The decision in the Colorado baker case is out from the Supreme Court. SCOTUS voted 7-2, amazingly, that the Colorado Human Rights Commission violated the Christian baker's religious expression rights because it was hostile to his beliefs and did not enforce the anti-discrimination laws with a view of neutralilty toward religious practice and expression.

    The correct outcome, and well reasoned, but this will certainly not stop these types of lawsuits. It just means that commissions and courts on the state level will have to be extremely careful in how they approach things.
     
    RabbiKnife, Jun 4, 2018
    #1
  2. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Glad to see it.
     
    IMINXTC, Jun 4, 2018
    #2
  3. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Recently there was one in California that also ruled in favour of the bakery.
     
    teddyv, Jun 4, 2018
    #3
  4. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    The Colorado case was very narrowly decided, which is the way is should be. SCOTUS should be ruling on individual cases, not setting social policy.

    In Colorado, the Human Rights Commission expressed a substantial public disdain for religious thought and expression, and SCOTUS smacked the snot out of them for it.

    This decision does NOT mean that any Christian business person can say "We don't serve gays" or "we don't provide services for gay weddings." It means that the states will have to be very careful in how they enacted same sex discrimination laws, and even more careful in how they enforce them.

    Very, very narrow application.

    But well done.
     
    RabbiKnife, Jun 4, 2018
    #4
  5. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    At BF, Sojourner posted about this and said in his thread “the tide is turning”. I wish I could agree with that comment, but to go from one victory to “the tide is turning”....I can’t.

    Maybe he was watching a spin cycle in his washing machine with a Tide pod in it.
     
    TrustGzus, Jun 4, 2018
    #5
  6. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    There's no tide in that opinion. It is correct, but it is very, very narrow.

    This conservative court, especially with Gorsuch taking up the Scalia mantle, is far less likely to make sweeping policy rulings and more likely, like in this case, to cobble together larger majorities (this was 7-2, by the way, with Bryer and Kagan joining) to rule on specific cases and the facts underlying them.

    No tide turning, except that anyone that ever thought that the courts were your friends should get out of the water.
     
    RabbiKnife, Jun 4, 2018
    #6
  7. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    The thing is, a baker could very well discriminate for the wrong reasons and hide behind religious belief, so I'm also glad to see this particular outcome
     
    Athanasius, Jun 4, 2018
    #7
  8. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Though it’s good to see an occasional victory like this, I still, in general, don’t have much respect for our “American court/justice system.” Actually, ANY court/justice system run by humans. I’ve seen too many instances of corruption, incompetence, negligence, guilty people going free, innocent people going to prison, people suing for ridiculous reasons and winning, people suing for legit reasons and losing, laws that are stupid, unfair, pointless, etc. I’m no anarchist. I do understand that we need SOME kind of government and SOME kind of court/justice system, as this world would be a million times worse than it is now, being that human nature is rotten and a large majority of mankind would commit crimes, including murder, theft, rape, etc. if there were no consequence for doing such things. So, though I “get” why we have a court/justice system, I’m still “less than impressed” with it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
    devilslayer365, Jun 4, 2018
    #8
  9. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I've been places that make me very happy about our legal system, despite some of the warts.
     
    teddyv, Jun 4, 2018
    #9
  10. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    This is the outcome I expected. But in the meantime - the heavy fine, social pressure and loss of income.
    The audacity of those who would try to legally force us to embrace same-sex marriage in violation of conscience.
    How far will it go?
     
    IMINXTC, Jun 4, 2018
    #10
  11. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    That’s great and all. However, I have very high standards. Nobody meets them. I’m satisfied with nothing less than PERFECT justice. Every person. Every instance. Every time.
     
    devilslayer365, Jun 4, 2018
    #11
  12. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    To the point of simply expressing your view being called a “hate crime” punishable by a prison sentence. In the United States. It’s coming...
     
    devilslayer365, Jun 4, 2018
    #12
  13. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Then you’ll end up in Hell if you’re satisfied with nothing less.
     
    TrustGzus, Jun 4, 2018
    #13
  14. TomH

    TomH Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't be a problem finding a perfect lawyer, perfect prosecutor, perfect judge, perfect jury. Oh wait. Perfect jury, jury of your peers.

    Never mind. I'll settle for fair.
     
    TomH, Jun 4, 2018
    #14
  15. TomH

    TomH Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you should talk to Jesus about perfect justice.
     
    TomH, Jun 4, 2018
    #15
  16. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    How so?
     
    devilslayer365, Jun 5, 2018
    #16
  17. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    “Fair?” Define fair. Does your version of “fair” include a person being accused of rape, though they didn’t actually rape anybody, getting convicted anyway, and going to prison? Is “fair” a prosecuting attorney withholding evidence from the defense attorney that would actually show an accused person is innocent of a crime they’ve been charged with? This isn’t “hypothetical” stuff, by the way. This kind of stuff happens all the time. You may be fine with this stuff happening (well, as long as it isn’t YOU that it’s happening to, I’m sure), but I’m certainly not fine with it. Like I said, man’s “justice” doesn’t impress me a whole lot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
    devilslayer365, Jun 5, 2018
    #17
  18. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Let's try to remain calm
     
    Athanasius, Jun 5, 2018
    #18
  19. TomH

    TomH Well-Known Member

    fair1
    fer/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
      "the group has achieved fair and equal representation for all its members"
      synonyms: just, equitable, honest, upright, honorable, trustworthy;
      impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, neutral, even-handed;
      lawful, legal, legitimate;
      informallegit, on the level;
      on the up and up
      "the courts were generally fair"
     
    TomH, Jun 5, 2018
    #19
  20. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Not interested in a dictionary definition of “fair.” Was curious what YOU see as “fair.” Well, according to the definition of fair you provided, the examples of injustice I mentioned are not “fair.” But they happen. Therefore, we DON’T have a “fair” justice system. We have an imperfect and flawed one. Which is why I’m NOT impressed with it. At best, you MAY luck out and not be found guilty of a crime you’ve been charged with but didn’t actually commit. However, you MAY also be found guilty despite actually being innocent. It’s a crap shoot. Not justice.
     
    devilslayer365, Jun 5, 2018
    #20
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