Isn't the obvious possibility of that interpretation that a believer could live in absolute, unmitigated flagrant evil without eternal consequence? So do you believe that the evidence of being born again is sinless perfection? Separating the soul from the flesh in terms of sin is just good old fashioned gnosticism.
Technically; a term used to describe something that is defined a certain way. So, technically it wasn't the same charges but did encompass the original transgression in one way or another. But that's not how God works my friend. With God, it's absolutes and there are no loop holes. Either you is saved, or you isn't! Pardon the grammar. W.C. Fields was on his deathbed reading the bible. A friend walks in to visit and says,"Bill, I thought you were an atheist. Why are you reading the bible?" Fields answers, "Ah yes, but I'm looking for a loophole"!
No, that's gnosticism, the exact thing that John was fighting. You are saying that if a believer sins, it is his flesh sinning, not his soul. That is the classic definition of the gnostic heresy.
So what is the use of the chastising hand of God RK. So we sin and it washes the blood from our soul? We're never again afforded the opportunity to ever accept the gift of salvation again? That seems to be what you're saying. Definition by who RK, the Roman Catholic church?
I'm not sure what that has to do with the scenario I mentioned. What do you do in a relationship where the other party has the ability to act, intervene, heal, etc., and doesn't, and doesn't for decades at that? What happens when faith feels one-sided? What I'm suggesting is that 'lost' salvation isn't grandiose, but mundane. It's not some big decision necessarily, but years of life. What, then?
Human beings are composite: flesh and spirit (of which the soul is the same substance). If we're separate from sin, our whole being is, or else it isn't. There is no flesh vs spirit struggle in those literal terms.
Hebrews 6 doesn't say anything like that. "Falling away"... apostasy, from the Greek "a change of position" is not about committing sin. I John is clear about that. Apostasy is an intentional rejection of Jesus and his sacrifice, no different in nature from the intentional acceptance of Jesus and his sacrifice at rebirth. Hebrews does teach that IF they call away/change position/apostasize, they cannot be restored. You got that right. Salvation is a one time thing. You can't be saved and then lost and then saved again. It is a sober warning. If it can't happen, then it's a frivolous, meaningless warning.
Hebrews 6 is a warning against going backwards to temple sacrifices and the old ways of Judaism, and the entire book is about Mt. Sinai and the Law vs the Perfect Sacrifice made by Christ. I'm not sure how much that even applies to a non-Jew, honestly. It's a direct response to the then-common "Judaizers" who told the early Christians that "oh great you believe in Jesus --- ok but you still need to get circumcised, observe the temple rituals and festivals and all laws and regulations anyway." Which if you're going to do all that there's no point to even put your faith in Christ --- just stay a traditional Jew and stay with the Old Covenant. The writer of Hebrews comes back with several chapters worth of "but the just have always lived by faith, so get outta here with your trying to convert people to thinking their salvation lies in Jewish rituals and rule-keepings when in fact that's never saved anybody". Without a temple and sacrifices and all those OC rituals in place in Jerusalem, I'm not sure how much of Hebrews even applies to any of us Gentiles whatsoever because we lack its entire context in real-life application, as well as full understanding of it because those are not our traditions. The audience of Hebrews are converted Jews, which is evident from the very first verse ("God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets" -- the Jewish ancestors, that is, because prophets generally weren't sent to Gentiles except a king once in a while). You want Old Covenant or New? Pick one, because you can't have both.
Which in no way impacts the issue of apostasy. Unless you believe that Hebrews has no application to Gentile believers at all.
I think it does, and it doesn't. I read it as a point of personal enrichment and reference to help me understand the Jewish mindset and the OC in light of the NC. They had to do it the opposite way, of course, coming out of the OC into the NC. I've never observed any Jewish rituals and festivals so despite the verses referencing them, the true impact of it isn't something I can ever truly appreciate. I've never seen a Jewish priest in full garb performing high holiday sacrifices. I've never watched an animal give its life and have its blood drained to atone for my tresspasses. I cannot even conceive of such a thing. I lack the visuals and the personal experience, although I can certainly rationally appreciate the points and counter-points made because I know enough of the Old Testament to find it somewhat relatable. Calling Jesus my "high priest" is a concept that's going to be mostly lost on me, by default, and there's not a whole lot I can do about it. I don't hold Moses and the prophets in the same regard a Jew would. As a German, I'm aware that ritual cleansing is deeply embedded in the Jewish mindset. I still remember going on a class trip to Worms which has a Jewish bath house. Of which there are many in Europe. Which is a big reason the Jews were so heavily persecuted, when everyone around them was dying of diseases because they didn't practice good hygiene, whereas the Jews did and ended up not dying, so they were accused of causing plagues and whatnot to begin with, and persecuted. But I take a shower every day, and personal hygiene is not something I associate with worship or the cleansing of my soul to draw near to God. There's just going to be some things in the Bible that I'm never going to be able to fully understand and appreciate because I'm always going to lack the context. It's something I struggle with. This might be considered by some to be a sacrilegious statement --- but, I honestly wish someone had bothered to add to the Bible since it was canonized, because (for example) having grown up in a part-Catholic family, I could easily relate to the writings of the Reformers as they take certain Catholic sacraments to task as having nothing to do with faith in Christ, and even hindering it. For example. In that sense I find Hebrews applicable, because if you substitute Jewish rituals to find acceptance with God and achieve salvation, with other religious rituals and mindsets, then that would indeed be fascinating, and also quite relatable to a non-Jew who lacks such a mindset. I personally find it very challenging as a student of Scripture to always have to pretend to live thousands of years ago in another world and culture, in order to fully understand everything in proper context. You may not struggle with that (and if you don't, then bless you), but I certainly do, and always have. Having said that ... Hebrews is actually one of my favorite books, despite my struggles with it.
Not to banter, but I'm seeing a lot of RCC and mainline protestant arguments here. Which is fine. Not being either, I can still understand where you're coming from. What I'm telling you is old and many of my predecessors were called heretics because of it. Some were even the main course at Roman Catholic Bar-B-Ques. (burned at the stake) The Protestants as well spent time fishing, using us for bait. I'll try to explain so I'm not misunderstood just what the teaching is that was handed down from generations in my church and subsequently my family. 1. Man is created in God's own image. God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Ghost. Man is body, soul, and spirit. Sometimes spirit and soul get confused in various teachings, but the soul is not the spirit and vice versa. 2. At the garden, mankind fell putting enmity between God and man. In essence, man's soul became lost. The whole man of course needed salvation, but the flesh returns to the earth it came from (Genesis 3:19), and the spirit, weather from the lost or saved goes back to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7). It's the soul that's saved: James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls No where in the Word do we see otherwise anywhere. 3. And that soul, once saved, is sealed by the Holy Spirit of God inside of us. Has any of you ever considered the word baptized or more specifically Baptized in the Holy Spirit? It doesn't mean doing all types of whacky stuff like speaking in some tongues and such. It means to be placed down into. We, our soul, is sealed by God in the Holy Spirit until He redeems His purchase. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. So yes indeed, I believe in a sinless soul once it's re-born. Why can't you? Is anything impossible with God? And Jesus said: John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 10:30 I and my Father are one. Dog gone it, never means never, doesn't it? Or is my Lord telling a fib or something? And God is going to put us back together with our sinless soul, glorified body, and the spirit that God gave us. 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Tradition or no, it's not heresy. At least not to me. Look RK, I know I'm dumber than a box of rocks with a hole in the bottom, but I believe the Word says what it means, and means what it says, Is that unreasonable? Is the Lord telling a fib there in John 10?
Man is not tripartite. Man is a unity. It is Greek philosphy and gnosticism, in particular, that says a sinful act is performed by the flesh and not by the non-flesh parts. If I believed that, I could preach on Sunday morning and go whoring on Sunday afternoon, because then, the "saved" me would be sinning, just the sinful flesh part. That's just gnosticism. John 10 doesn't say that a believer can't reject his salvation. It just says that no person can take them unwillingly from God's protection. If the Lord telling a fib in Hebrews 6, or when Paul warns Timothy about those that make shipwreck of their faith, or when he tells the church in Thessalonica that there will be great apostasy before the end? Unsaved people can't commit apostasy.
So then you wouldn't be a God fearing man now would you. Otherwise you'd have the fear in you that God would whoop the living daylights out of you in chastisement. Is it written "whom God loves, He chastises"? Oh and you would know that it's the Lord dealing with you like a son for going out a whoring. I mean that as the bible says, without that chastising hand of God on you, you don't have a Father. And then there's the sin unto death previously mentioned, where God will take you outta here if you don't make the flesh behave. That sin unto death by the way is only mentioned when speaking about the saved. You a preacher RK? Many that say they're saved and then go live out the scenario you mentioned may very well not be saved in the first place. We see plenty of these guys in Matthew 7...
Oh, and the Hebrew converts had the funny idea that they could do exactly what you said RK and I'm sure in the same scenario. And to Timothy, some shall depart from the faith? Well yeah, but then again, as mentioned before, faith doesn't save you, Grace does.
What is the fear of God if I have eternal fire insurance? After all, sin is extremely pleasant and enjoyable for a season. What is the fear of an early death if I have fun until then? Neither is exactly compelling. and "The faith" in Timothy means "the Christian walk," not "faith" as in Ephesians 2. The Hebrew Christians weren't in danger of going out and satisfying the flesh. They were in danger (and some had) rejected Christ's sacrifice and returned to believing that ritual Judaism was the correct path.