Do you believe Cannabis should be legal both for religious and non-religious standpoint?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChristianInspiration, May 31, 2017.

  1. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    With all the money that's to be made, you'd think more States would legalize it. I mean people are doing it anyways, might as well make a buck off of it.
     
  2. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    First maxim of politics and economics: If you want less of a thing, tax it.
     
  3. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    How much would legalizing help. Well, maybe. Guns are legal and we know there is no illegal gun activity. So I guess the same would happen with drugs.
     
  4. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Illegality is defined by man's words.

    But yes, humankind has no lack of ability to harm itself regardless of what a government does or does not do.

    That being said, governments, IMHO, should not be enabling idiots to cleanse the gene pool at the expense of others.
     
  5. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    The gynormous amount spent trying to enforce laws against marijuana could be directed towards in-depth information, particularly in schools, on the long-term effects of pot use, especially regular use.

    Stanford, among others, has documented, through extensive, comprehensive studies; subtle, debilitating harm to memory, cognizance (and a general proclivity for using big words). Ahem.
    Most notably, long term studies reveal a deadening effect on ambition and a common personality shared among regular users - a general tendency toward the easier path, so to speak.

    And other stuff.
     
  6. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    That's gonna happen with just about anything. You never seen someone trying to sell an iPhone that fell off the back of a truck? Theft is a given.
     
  7. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Nope. Never seen that.
     
  8. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Ummmm...you do realize, right, that you just described to a "t" the vast majority of American liberals? :p
     
    IMINXTC likes this.
  9. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Dani

    Dani You're probably fine.

    Because them being illegal is stopping teenagers from using them ... how, exactly? It's not a deterrent.

    Actually the fact that these drugs are illegal, adds to the excitement and makes them even more desirable. It becomes a game to "beat the system" on top of "getting high". If you can get high while beating the system ... score!

    I know this from talking to a hardcore addict btw so I'm not making this up. The psychological root of illegal drugging (other than self-medicating, of course) is rebellion. We're feeding into that rebellion by leaving that entire subculture in the darkness of illegality.

    You can only control that which is in the light.
     
  11. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    You're probably arguing for too much, though. Legalisation isn't going to fix this problem (that doesn't mean the current drug laws should be kept in place), and if it's a matter of making the activity mundane and pedestrian, then why not do this with a whole host of other activities, like prostitution.
     
  12. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    One hardcore drug addict is a small sample size to form conclusions from. Making something illegal or legal has impact on a society.

    A great book with lots of stats from government websites is Norman Geisler's and Frank Turek's Legislating Motality. Read it several years ago. Good read.
     
  13. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Taxing it may reduce something, or may just drive it underground. Work isn't illegal but income taxes make cash-in-hand work increasingly desirable for those able and willing to operate off the books.
     
  14. Dani

    Dani You're probably fine.

    Why not? Making prostitution legal at least allows for mandatory screenings and other safety regulations.

    People are going to have sex with prostitutes. They've done it for literally thousands of years and will continue to do it. We are delusional if we think that "if we make this illegal, people will stop doing what they've done for ages". People will not stop doing it. They've never stopped doing it. If two adults want to have sex, and one wants to pay the other for it, what gives me the right to tell them "you can't"??? Of course they can. So then ... regulate it. Keep a database, and make it mandatory to notify all clients if a prostitute ends up with HIV or whatever.

    We raised 6 kids and our motto has always been "if you're going to drink, do it at our house, that way at least we can monitor you and make sure you're okay". Because we knew they were going to do it anyway. If you're going to be an immature putz with an under-developed brain, at least be one under supervision of mature folks who can keep you safe and protected from your own waywardness with strong boundaries in place. Because we were once immature putzes our own selves and know exactly what you're going to do and how you're going to do it. All our kids are functional adults with stable lives, who got their youthful silliness out of their system under our supervision and guidance. Because we still remember what it was like being a teenager with an immature brain in an adult world with all its freedoms that you must learn to use responsibly so you don't make a complete mess of things.

    Harsh punishments for minor offenses doesn't teach anybody anything. It turns people away from community and its safety nets. It destroys trust and brands people with stigma.

    We need better "youthful indiscretion" laws that allow young people to not have a permanent record for youthful stupid decisions. That provides them with mentors rather than parole officers.

    In an ideal world every teenager would have been raised by stable parents, so by the time they're of age they can make adult decisions and hit the ground running. Unfortunately, in reality there's way too many kids out there from dysfunctional homes, that end up in dysfunctional society none the wiser and continually being punished for a dysfunction they didn't ask for and that conditioned them to be dysfunctional themselves. Who is going to help them break the cycle?

    It's almost as though people who ratify laws don't understand human nature at all. It's mind boggling, really.

    "Don't handle, don't taste, don't touch" are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Banning certain activities and making them punishable by law has no power against sensual indulgence. None. Whatsoever.
     
  15. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    So, let me ask this...there are numerous human activities we have laws against, including drug use. From what I can tell, the main reason we have laws against these activities, including things other than drug use, is because we, as a society, view them to be harmful in various ways. If you believe drug use, which is harmful to society in various ways, shouldn't be illegal, what is your standard for saying all these other things should be illegal?
     
  16. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Interesting. Euthanasia, too?
     
  17. Dani

    Dani You're probably fine.

    Medically speaking it's a personal decision how far you want them to go in an effort to save your life. That's what Advanced Directives are for, and the executor of your will should know your final end-of-life wishes (such as your spouse or whoever) once you are in fact actively dying (or considered braindead and without any medical hope for recovery).

    Other than that ... there's just too much opportunity for abuse. It almost strikes me as a "whitewashing" of suicide by pulling a doctor into it and so have it be considered "okay" as if that removes the stigma of suicide from those who no longer wish to live for whatever reason.

    Now, having said that, I don't consider suicide an unforgivable sin or whatever, nor do I personally attach a stigma to it, because I do understand that life fatigue is a true and real thing and that there comes a point when people truly believe that they absolutely can't anymore and don't want to anymore, and so they commit the unthinkable ...

    However, as it stands the whole euthanasia thing is not being handled properly (IMO) so ... IDK that we're ready to pass actual laws on this, all things considered. Even though I know it's already been done and is being done, albeit rather clumsily so. I think doctors and psychiatrists are allowing themselves to be pulled into something that's not on them to decide or make decisions over. It's the sciences of Medicine and Psychology/Psychiatry taken too far, beyond their reasonable boundaries. It's a doctor's sworn oath to get their patients well, not dead. But, I guess the docs have access to the better, quicker, deadlier drugs so ... maybe just pull the middle man out and regulate the matter between the pharmacy and the patient directly; and so have the person wishing to die carry the burden from start to finish, like they do now already and have been doing for thousands of years, without "professional help".
    Anyway, those are my (admittedly rudimentary) thoughts on that there rabbit hole ... I've now thought about that way more than I ever wanted to. Ha. Smacking you with a fish.pi-in-face

    (Yanno, in Skyrim, if you're an Orc wanting a good death, you just find yourself a Dragonborn and proceed to battle it out ... :D )
     
  18. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    But there's plenty of opportunities for abuse when it comes to legalising drugs, and prostitution, so why would euthanasia be any different? If we don't legalise euthanasia, we could unfairly prosecute husbands, wives, children, parents, etc., for murder, and that seems silly given that in the vast majority of cases they would have only carried out their relatives, friends, etc., wishes.
     
  19. Dani

    Dani You're probably fine.

    Because drugs are drugs and prostitution is prostitution. The definitions are clear and nobody is trying to whitewash anything. If you want to mess around with drugs, you're taking your life and health into your own hands. If you want to not only have sex outside marriage (which is legal) but also pay someone else for it, you're also taking your well-being into your own hands. Currently with illegal street drugs, those are cut down so bad, heroin addicts aren't even buying heroin. The illegality of drugs is empowering thieves and murderers. Making it legal takes the power away from those people. They've already done it successfully in Portugal. They legalized drugs, made addiction a medical issue, started treating it properly, and drug use actually went down. That's verifiable with facts & data.

    The data is still out on prostitution, where decriminalizing it has shown promise in countries like Sweden, while not so much in countries like Germany.

    Evidently it matters how you decriminalize it, and how you choose to regulate it. I'm not at all for making these things legal without a) proper research and b) adopting the most beneficial model with boundaries in place that actually work in favor of protecting people, rather than enabling further exploitation.

    Euthanasia on the other hand is whitewashing the death of another human being as a "medical procedure".

    As is abortion.

    They made abortion legal, relaxed the boundaries, and now it's out of control, where babies ready to be born who are viable, actual people, are being murdered. But call it "tissue" or give it some other medical term, and voila. The concern is the same will happen with euthanasia, which is a valid concern IMO. Especially now that they're extending the bounds to "psychiatric terminal disease". Like they extended the bounds for abortion from "life of the mother" to "at will for any reason at all". Messing around with the life of another human being in a postmodern society that encourages individualism over community and rights over responsibilities isn't going to end well.

    The data is in favor of legalizing drugs. It's mixed on prostitution. It's not at all in favor of legalizing euthanasia, if abortion is to be an indicator of where that's all headed ...
     
  20. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    We could apply your reasoning for drugs, and prostitution, and apply it to euthanasia, and abortion, and we should arrive at the same conclusion. What's the unstated premise that distinguishes them? We could, by the way, just as easily say that legalizing drugs whitewashes the reality of drugs, and the same for prostitution.
     

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