The NIV/NET appreciation thread.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by devilslayer365, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    That's strange. I grew up reading / memorizing the KJV, and seem to remember John 3.16 always being 'one and only son'. Great explanation.
     
  2. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I use the New King James.
     
  3. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Hi Aaron. I personally think the KJV and NKJV are great translations. So your John 3:16 reads like the KJV and has only begotten.

    I hope the explanation I gave helps you understand why most translations do not use begotten anymore, NIV just being one of them.

    I will go through your list of other words one at a time as I have time.
     
  4. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Having talked about John 3:16, let's talk about the charge of removing the word fornication.

    The KJV uses fornication in 39 verses:

    1. 2 Chronicles 21:11
    2. Isaiah 23:1
    3. Ezekiel 16:15
    4. 16:26
    5. 16:29
    6. Matthew 5:32
    7. 15:19
    8. 19:9
    9. Mark 7:21
    10. John 8:21
    11. Acts 15:20
    12. 15:29
    13. 21:25
    14. Romans 1:29
    15. 1 Corinthians 5:1
    16. 5:9
    17. 5:10
    18. 5:11
    19. 6:9
    20. 6:13
    21. 6:18
    22. 7:2
    23. 2 Corinthians 12:21
    24. Galatians 5:19
    25. Ephesians 5:3
    26. Colossians 3:5
    27. 1 Thessalonians 4:3
    28. Hebrews 12:16
    29. Jude 7
    30. Revelation 2:14
    31. 2:20
    32. 2:21
    33. 9:21
    34. 14:8
    35. 17:2
    36. 17:4
    37. 18:3
    38. 18:9
    39. 19:2

    The NKJV uses it in only the following verses that the KJV does:

    1. Isaiah 23:17
    2. Matthew 15:19
    3. Mark 7:21
    4. John 8:41
    5. 1 Corinthians 6:9
    6. 2 Corinthians 12:21
    7. Galatians 5:19
    8. Ephesians 5:3
    9. Colossians 3:5
    10. Hebrews 12:16
    11. Revelation 14:8
    12. 18:3
    13. 18:9
    14. 19:2

    Did the NKJV, that you use, delete fornication 25 times?

    Furthermore, the NKJV uses fornication twice where the KJV does not (Ephesians 5:5 & 1 Timothy 1:10)!!!

    The NIV, HCSB/CSB and even the ESV never use it!!!! The NASB uses it only 8 times.

    What's the standard? KJV? NKJV? NASB? ESV? NIV?

    The answer is none of them.

    If I stick to standard type tools the average Christian might use, let's look at the Enhanced Strong's Lexicon for the primary word translated as fornication in the KJV.

    4202 πορνεία [porneia /por·ni·ah/] n f. From 4203; TDNT 6:579; TDNTA 918; GK 4518; 26 occurrences; AV translates as “fornication” 26 times. 1 illicit sexual intercourse. 1a adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. 1b sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. 1c sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12. 2 metaph. the worship of idols. 2a of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.​

    You can see it encompasses a variety of sexual sins.

    Mercian Webster defines fornication this way:

    noun
    14th century: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other—compare adultery​

    This definition works. The KJV and NKJV aren't wrong when they use fornication.

    Modern translations like the NIV and ESV and the HCSB/CSB have sexually immoral(ity) for the Greek word. Nothing is omitted and this wording covers the broad range of sexual sins listed above in Strong's.

    By the way, many times where the NKJV differs from the KJV, sexually immoral(ity) is what they used. Look at 1 Corinthians 6:13 & 18 for just two of many examples.

    If you would toss the NIV, toss your NKJV while you're at it, Brother.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
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  5. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    I feel like I'm in school. Learning quite a bit here. :cool:
     
  6. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    The other day, one of the members of my Small Group mentioned that he went to the local Bible store to pick up a Bible for his daughter. He asked the cashier what version she recommended that was easy to read but also accurate. Wow! He said even the customers jumped in and voiced their opinions. He had no idea of the Version drama.
     
  7. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I'm just confused as to why there are so many different translations. Why aren't the Bibles we use a word for word translation of the original manuscripts?
     
  8. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    There are, but if you're expecting there to be a 1 = 1 translation 100% of the way through, then that's simply not how language works (especially between languages, especially between languages separated by thousands of years).
     
  9. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Then I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to figure out which version is going to give me the best translation. That being the case, how am I supposed to accurately read, understand, apply, and live out God's Word?
     
  10. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    What Bible do you use now Aaron?
     
  11. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Aaron, you don't want word for word. Here's an example.

    Thusly for loved the God the world so that the son the unique one he gave that all the one trusting into him not might be destroyed but might have life eternal.
     
  12. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I use the New King James.
     
  13. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Ok. I don't see any problem then. Read it, and read it often. And if you have any concerns, there are plenty of online resources that will give you the original languages and dictionaries.
     
  14. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Yeah, a bit awkwardly worded, at least from a Western point of view. So, how do I know which version of the Bible is the best for me to read from? And I don't want to simultaneously read 5 different translations to get an overall sense of what a particular scripture is saying. That, to me, seems ridiculous and cumbersome. If that works for some people, great. That's not how I prefer to read the Bible. It can be difficult enough as it is to get me to read 1 Bible sometimes. It would be near to impossible to get me to read 5...
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  15. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

  16. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Why are you suspicious that the translations you have access to aren't 'the best translation'? TrustGzus' example above is a good one; word order in Greek =/= word order in English, so even on a strict 1 = 1 translation we have to re-order the sentence to put it into a syntax that makes sense in English.

    Consider these 25 translations of John 3:16: http://biblehub.com/john/3-16.htm. They all say the same thing, so what is your standard for 'best'? Otherwise, if you really want to know the Bible you have to read multiple translations, commentaries, and learn a thing or two about the original languages, i.e., you can't be lazy about it.
     
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  17. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus What does this button do? Staff Member

    Aaron, unless you're struggling to understand NKJV, and you're looking for one version, that's a fine one for reading and study. None are perfect. But most are great almost all of the time. Stick with it - again unless you find NKJV difficult.
     
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  18. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Excellent point K. We have to put effort into this. I mean, if it really is that important to us.
     
  19. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    No, I can read, and understand, the New King James Version just fine. My issue is whether or not it's accurate. I suppose I can continue to read it and also get books on Hebrew and Greek languages so that I can get a better understanding of various words used in scripture.
     
  20. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Difficult to read, it is. Confusing you are me to.

    :)
     
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