When will the end be?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TrustGzus, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    This is a separate issue from what I have in mind, so let them argue it out in the courts.
     
  2. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    48 cents of each - 13-14 billion- NFL dollar going to player salary, we'll see...
     
  3. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    You may have to calrify your point then because I don't think you can separate redressing of historical wrongs from the other stuff.
     
  4. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I read the article you linked to. While it was a good read, and I agreed with SOME things in it here and there, this one sentence (which is also the main theme of the entire article) is total NONSENSE and I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with it...”We should fear that the current uproar isn’t really so much about the flag as it is a reaction to disruptive, justice-seeking Blacks—even if they’re also millionaire athletes—who need to be kept in their place.”

    Umm...I thoroughly believe MOST people don’t care that the players are black. People, including myself, just don’t like the fact that the flag is being disrespected. We feel it disregards the sacrifices many have made. These sacrifices include people DYING (including blacks dying) to give us freedoms and rights that MANY people around the world DON’T have.

    There’s a black lady at my church who tried to make the case on Facebook that we have a problem with the kneelers “because they’re black.” I shut her down rather quickly and bluntly by letting her know EXACTLY why I don’t like the kneeling and I made it EXCEPTIONALLY clear that I don’t care that many of the players are black and that I don’t like the WHITE or HISPANIC players kneeling, either. I don’t think she likes me, as I stole her thunder. I also think she is frustrated by the fact that I refuse to suffer from “white guilt.” I can’t really make myself care about her issues with me, though.

    It annoys me that some black Christians try to buy into this “racism is behind every tree” mindset, just like the world does. I thought we’re supposed to be “different than the world?” Is there REAL racism? Of course there is. However, is everything in this world that happens based on, and determined by, peoples’ race? I don’t particularly believe it is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2017
  5. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    It seems to me that this is just another situation where lots of people make lots of fuss on social media but then line up like dutiful little serfs and continue to buy the product.

    If people really feel that strongly about the NFL players not standing for the anthem, stop watching the games. That will have far more effect than posting about it, however agitatedly, on social media while continuing to hand over money. In that regard it's no different to people complaining that they are somehow "forced" to upgrade their computer hardware by Microsoft (who also apparently force them to upgrade their software too, despite the fact that older versions of Windoze still work just like they always did) but stand in line to hand over their money, or who complain that the new iPhone is far too expensive but still buy one at full price, and so on.

    (Intended as a general comment, not specifically levelled at you, DS, it just seemed relevant to your post)
     
  6. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Oh, I walk the walk. I don’t just talk the talk. I’ve disavowed the NFL, including my team, the Baltimore Ravens. They were the jackholes that were playing against the Jacksonville Jaguars (the other jackholes) in an exhibition game in England recently and both teams kneeled for the “Star Spangled Banner” but STOOD for “God Save The Queen.” Yeah, I’m done.

    Sorry, tango, I know you’re British, but it’s not ok in my book for Americans to give the middle finger to our country but stand and give respect to another country, such as yours. I know our countries are allies and all, but it’s still completely disrespectful. It actually almost feels traitorous that the teams did what they did.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  7. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    As I said in the earlier post you quoted, there's a difference between addressing historical wrongs, and obsessing over them. Canada, Australia, the US, and Europe, are by-and-large engaged in the latter. Historical treaties and legal agreements are a matter on their own, and I don't consider it an obsession for 'first nations' people to pursue those agreements in court.

    I will clarify here, however, that this is what I consider an obsession. Residential schools were terrible - moving on.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I just don't see the obsession that you keep saying is going on. It's all part and parcel with the aforementioned issues. These are being dealt with, but the consequences do not just disappear overnight or in 20 years. That's just seems pretty naive on your part.
     
  9. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    I'm not being naive, I'm being harsh. I don't believe in inherited or institutional guilt, and given that the present discourse relies on those two 'values', I can't appreciate it. Apologies for the residential school system started before I was born, and continue, and will continue to continue -- how can it not when it's been declared 'cultural genocide'? Of course, we're also meant to accept that the culture in question is valuable and worth preserving -- now that's an interesting question.
     
  10. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Hey, I'd agree with you. When I'm in the US I stand for the Star Spangled Banner and appreciate it when people in the UK stand for our national anthem. It's the whole "when in Rome..." thing. It's not a huge leap of imagination to say they wanted to continue their protest while respecting their hosts but, as you say, it does seem like they were agreeing to respect a foreign national anthem and not their own.

    I must admit I find it curious to see just how many places it seems the national anthem is squeezed into an event in the US. I've been at craft shows where they had a local singer perform a horrendously bad rendition of the national anthem, and of course asked everybody to stand and remove hats etc. Why it was necessary to subject us all to such a horrendous vocal butchering of a song before looking over the wares of the assembled crafters will probably always remain something of a mystery to me. But, you know, when in Rome and all that, so I found a shaded spot so I could take my hat off without worrying about the effects of the sun on my bald spot and endured the screeching. In that light I wonder why it's considered necessary to play the national anthem before a sporting event at all. I wonder whether that would be seen as vindicating the protesters or merely taking the wind out of their sails.
     
  11. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I'll make everyone an easy deal.

    Federal government abolish all concealed carry laws and allow open or concealed carry without permit and you can moon during the Star Strangling Banner singing...

    Symbolism over substance is infantile
     
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  12. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I guess that is where we differ then. I do think that there is institutional guilt, though I do believe that it has been addressed. Apologies from the federal government have been made. The responsible churches have made apologies (as far as I am aware) and certainly reparations have been made. I do believe that the Church has repented. If people are still talking about it, well, it's a more openly accepted part of our history.

    I am not sure of the necessity of being "harsh".
     
  13. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    My money says Kaep won't get signed.
     
  14. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    I'd frame that 'harsh' relative to the accepted norm. I reject the idea of institutional guilt, I reject the idea that all cultures are valuable (and even entertain the possibility that European cultures are/were more valuable than 'first nations' cultures - Western Judeo-Christian culture clearly is in spite of the faults associated with it), and I'm not convinced that the idea of residential schools was wrong, even though the reality and execution clearly, undeniably were. It takes an idiot to write something like 'Report on Industrial Schools for Indians and Half-Breeds', and even more idiots to accept, and then put its conclusions into practice. It then takes even more idiots to continue the system for 100+ years. None of those idiots are modern Canadian institutions, or its populace (except for those individuals who are still alive).

    But my point is that whoever was involved should acknowledge and apologise, and then everyone should move on to hopefully better projects. Apologising, and then apologising again, and again, and again, for 30+ years isn't the answer.
     
  15. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Yeah I get it.
    The last residential school closed in 1996. Not that long ago.

    I still do not see the same organizations making multiple apologies. Maybe I've missed it. The federal government only did it in 2008. Most religious organizations have officially apologized now. And so people are moving on and trying to rebuild some connections. It does not mean that there is still no wreckage out there that still needs to be dealt with.
     
  16. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I don’t know if he will or won’t but apparently he’s now suing the NFL for “collusion.” Because nobody wants him...
     
  17. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Entitlement mentality at it's finest.
     
    devilslayer365 likes this.
  18. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Pretty much...
     
  19. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    Seems like he wants to protest while also being free of the consequences of protesting.
     
  20. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    The Leftist American dream.
     

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