Trial from God...or deserved consequences?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by devilslayer365, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    So, am I the only Christian who notices that other Christians will take a negative situation that they’re enduring and say it’s God “giving them a trial to get through in order to grow spiritually” when it’s actually just them dealing with the consequences of a bad choice THEY made on their own? For instance, if somebody is dealing with economic hardship and struggling to pay their bills, have food, and make their mortgage payment, how is that a “trial from God” when it’s due to having too much debt from having multiple credit cards?
     
  2. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Even dealing with the bad consequences resulting from our own actions is a trial to either grow and correct or to diminish and fail to correct
     
  3. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Yes, but I don't think it's a trial from God as such, which is what Aaron seemed to be going for. More of a self-imposed personal trial.
    As to the origional question or observation, I have not run into many people who have taken that line.
     
  4. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Oh, I agree. If you bury yourself with a problem, sometimes you have to be the one to dig yourself out. I don’t believe that God is obligated to always come to our rescue.
     
  5. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    My God delights in rescuing his Children when they do stupid things...
     
  6. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Does God supernaturally intervene and solve all your problems, including the ones that are your fault, leaving you with nothing to do but sit back and watch Him do His thing? If so, consider yourself blessed. I know NOBODY, including myself, that God does that for.
     
  7. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    God supernaturally intervenes and works on ME to solve all of my problems, including the ones that are my fault, leaving me with nothing to do but to trust Him and to do what He says.

    And He delights in doing that, even if the problems are my fault completely, even if created as a direct result of disobeying His direct instructions.
     
    IMINXTC likes this.
  8. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    And, or course, Christians are not immune from (a) bad theology, (b) blame shifting, or (c) stupidity.
     
  9. Scooby_Snax

    Scooby_Snax Rut-Roh

    I am of the opinion that trials are trials and whether a person believes they are from God or "of" evil, they are still trials.
    Because some trials could cause a person to loose hope in God, His goodness or might, it is important to not make split decisions about what people share generally...but maybe ask them if they need to talk.
     
  10. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    I just rather not assume too much about someone's life. I definitely saw there was a distinction between how believers treated their own, then treated the rest of society.

    Your house burned down? This is a trial. Have faith, bring in the community, God will be glorified through healing.
    1000 other people's houses burned down? Well, that's what America gets for allowing gay marriage.

    But the way I figure it, for most people life is a miserable slog. An unasked for burden that grinds the soul to dust before shutting the light off either unexpectedly, or after a long painful deterioration. To exist is a decades long trial. Why not give people some benefit of doubt and offer them a hand anyway? So what if their stupid decisions landed them there. I've made stupid decisions that would make the needle on a stupid-o-meter spin like a fan blade.... and people still helped me.

    So from that perspective... why does it matter?
     
  11. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

  12. Scooby_Snax

    Scooby_Snax Rut-Roh

    I would say that illness/disease (of sin or what have you) is something that is more often treated over the long run, rather than instantly cured.
    Scripture that comes to mind for us Christians:

    Mark 2:16-17
    And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
    And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
    I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

    In verse 16 I see an obvious blow toward legalism-- in verse 17, an obvious observation of "need" involved for those who seek Christ to be healed (from themselves?)
    It is never about how much righteousness I have obtained. (I do not get this "Christian "RIGHT" stuff at all. )
    If anything I have obtained mercy from nothing I have done, personally. Anything good that comes from me, is because of God's influence, mercy, grace, goodness.

    It is always about His righteousness.

    That in between place where we ALL are that speak and live still today-- Can (IMO) only be lived by faith in Him and His goodness, no matter how much stuff is either thrown at us, or we throw at ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  13. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    That's one heck of an assumption. Not everyone who's going through a financial hardship is suffering due to their multiple credit cards.
    And even in that mess, why do you assume God can't or won't get that person, or family, out of that situation?
     
  14. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    No assumption on my part. That’s just an EXAMPLE I chose to use, because I know that DOES happen. Many people, though not all, suffer financial hardship because they get themselves into debt because they try to live above their means. Many Americans, in particular, have the “buy now, pay later” mentality and get into debt in order to have things now that they can’t afford to buy outright. I personally know people in that EXACT situation.

    I think you might be misunderstanding me. I’m not saying God WON’T help people in that predicament. I’m merely saying it’s not a “trial from God” because GOD didn’t put them in that situation for some kind of test or something. THEY put themselves in that situation by not handling their money well. Unless, of course, it can be shown that God made them, or influenced them to, make those bad choices that got them into their situation?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  15. Scooby_Snax

    Scooby_Snax Rut-Roh

    Not everyone who charges up credit cards does so to have "things" they do not need.
    Credit card companies are predatory. Sharing this with others is helpful.
     
  16. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Credit cards: Hard lesson.
     
    Scooby_Snax likes this.
  17. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I've never understood how a lender can be considered predatory.

    No one is forced to borrow
     
  18. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    This is true. They are not “predatory,” but they sure DO like to charge a LOT in order for you to borrow from them...
     
  19. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    The Bible has laws against usury.

    And yes, people can be forced to borrow. Most people do not have the liquidity to purchase a home. Many businesses also require large capital outlay before they generate any revenue.

    As to credit cards, I would say their actions are somewhat morally dubious.
     
    hisleast likes this.
  20. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    1. The laws against usury only applied to Israelite loaning to Israelite. Any entirely different land based economic system, that included the cancellation of all debts at Jubilee. Apples and phylacteries.
    2. No one is forced to borrow. People choose to borrow. No one is forced to purchase a home or to start a business.
    3. What is dubious about a person or company loaning money to someone who chooses to ignore basic math?
     

Share This Page