The Unpardonable Sin

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by ProDeo, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Question, not accusation...

    Why the inquiry? Assuming the passage means what you think it does, how does that have any impact on you or your circle of influence.
     
  2. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Who are you asking?
     
  3. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

  4. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    How does my believing that blaspheming the Holy Spirit, like the Pharisees did, damns one to hell impact me or my circle of influence? Not sure that they are corellated. Why do you ask? I’m not making a connection.
     
  5. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Part of his execution routine was to try to force Christians to blaspheme Christ (Acts 26.11). It is highly unlikely that he did so without himself blaspheming in the process (e.g., 'look, nothing happened!').
     
  6. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Hence the question.

    The Bible is not some esoteric theological work.

    How does it our interpretation impact you and your circle of influence? How does it affect your view of God, or nonbelievers...or even superficially religious people? How does it impact your view of those that you consider to be Pharisees? If your understanding of Scripture does not profoundly influence your thinking, you aren't really Nader standing and applying Scripture.

    So how does your interpretation affect your life.?
     
  7. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Don’t talk disrespectfully about the Holy Spirit or you’re going to hell. That’s how the interpretation affects me. It emphasizes we need to have the utmost respect for God. Our eternal condition depends on it. Not sure if that’s an adequate or right enough answer for you, but it’s what I got.
     
  8. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    The Bible says blaspheming Christ is forgivable. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not...
     
  9. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    That's highly unspecific, dontcha think?
    What does "talking disrespectfully" mean?
    Do you have any real-life examples of a person doing such a thing and ending up in hell, or are you relying on guesswork?
    "Joe died of a heart attack. Unfortunately, even though he was an upstanding guy who donated most of his income to charity and worshipped the Lord with us every Sunday, he called the Holy Spirit an "it" all the time, so we probably can't expect to see him in heaven, you guys. Poor Joe. Should have been more respectful."
     
  10. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Ok. Valid point. Don’t call the Holy Spirit the Devil. Satan. Beelzebub. That specific enough?
     
  11. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    But that's not blasphemy
     
  12. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    Can you imply it? Where's the line? Do you have to say those specific words? What if you do it accidentally, or you get your signals crossed? There's lots of people right now who are going through trials that God sent their way to grow their faith and purify them, and many of those people, having missed the signal, are currently very busy doing "spiritual warfare" to get "the devil" out of their lives so they don't have to suffer any more.

    That's a real-life scenario which I've seen many, many, many times.

    Are those people blaspheming?
     
  13. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    That's some funny Trinity you have going on there. Paul was a blasphemer, and Paul was saved. Sorry, but that breaks that particularly bad interpretation of the 'unpardonable' sin you - and many others - hold.
     
  14. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    It's a bit thin. Plus, it creates a religious hedge that isn't in Scripture. In addition to faith, you are now adding behavioral requirements to salvation.

    It demonstrates that you believe that the love of agod is conditional, and it is not. Such an interpretation, however, often results in a great deal of fear and worry, and often results in a great lack of joy. And most of the time, our relationships with people are a direct reflection of how we view God.
     
  15. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Not really. Christ and the Holy Spirit both are part of the Trinity Godhead, but they are not the same. Christ says blaspheming Him can be forgiven. But not the Holy Spirit. It’s right in scripture.
     
  16. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I disagree. I don’t personally worry about the unpardonable sin. Honestly, I believe it’s a sin that few can even commit now. The Pharisees did, but they were in a unique position to be able to see the Holy Spirit in action performing miracles.
     
  17. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Again, blasphemy begins with a wrong identification of who God is... it begins with a rejection of deity...failure to properly identify God results in an inability to believe
     
  18. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    No, it's not there. There is no such thing as 'you're fine if you sin against the right person of the Trinity: blaspheme Christ all you want, but don't dare do it to against the Holy Spirit or you'll be in trouble!'
     
  19. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    But what does "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" actually mean?

    It's very obvious, actually, plainly from the context: The Pharisees equated God with the devil.

    Well, if you can't even tell God and satan apart, then you have other problems than saying a few disrespectful words, honestly.

    I actually believe that Jesus shot the religious leaders straight across the bow and used hyperbole to rattle their cages, because they were sooooo stubborn and blind about everything, so He always used the strongest possible condemnatory language with them, to get their attention.

    This is not the same language He used with other people. So you have to consider that also. Language matters. Words matter. The audience matters. Who is Christ speaking to? Why does He choose such strong, condemnatory words with the Pharisees, and not with other people? You must take these things into consideration also when you set about trying to understand the meaning of certain Bible passages, and (God forbid) deriving actual doctrine from them.

    If you're Joe Schmoe from Albuquerque, then Jesus is going to address you much differently than if you are a Jewish religious leader circa 33 A.D. Christ was calling these people to repentance using the strongest possible words, because there was a great and terrible judgment coming. That judgment was still about 40 years away, but it was coming, and He wasn't making any bones about it. They were on their last chance, and about to blow it. He was trying to help them not blow it, see? They were experiencing their final visitation before their final destruction. That is serious, serious stuff. So He used serious, serious language with them, so they could never claim "well you didn't warn us, or we would have repented". Matthew 12 and Mark 3 happen in that context, and in that context only. It does not apply to us, whatsoever. Unnastand?
     
  20. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Matthew 12:32 says something different. “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” No, it’s not “fine” to blaspheme the Son of Man (Christ), but it is forgivable. Apparently not the same story with the Holy Spirit, though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017

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