The Unpardonable Sin

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by ProDeo, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Not true. By saying Jesus performed miracles by the power of Satan, they blasphemed the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was the one who allowed Jesus to perform His miracles, but the Pharisees were wicked and called the Holy Spirit the Devil. That’s a pretty big insult to God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  2. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Ah, you are right, for a moment I forgot about v28.
     
  3. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    The question is. why did they confront Jesus as they did? See my earlier reply.
     
  4. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Perhaps there is merit to what you said. All I know is for the Pharisees to be aware that Jesus was sent by God (as Nicodemus confirmed they believed so) and then to actually say His abilities to cast out demons and perform miracles came from Satan shows you how completely wicked their hearts were. No surprise that God viewed them as unforgivable.
     
  5. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Why do you say that God viewed them as unforgivable?

    The context is clear. The Pharisees condemned themselves by their own thoughts and actions. The entire chapter is demonstrating that fact.

    Taking verse 31 out of the context of the chapter creates this false impression that there is a particular sin that cannot be forgiven... The reason that any sin is not forgiven is because it is not repented of.
     
  6. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    There IS a particular sin that cannot be forgiven. Jesus Himself highlighted that ANY sin can be forgiven...except one. Which one? The very specific sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He said it will NEVER be forgiven. He said that, I didn’t. Mark 3:28-30 points out that Jesus specifically tied what the Pharisees said about His performing miracles being from demons to their sin being blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  7. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Disbelief precedes blasphemy; it's (ongoing) disbelief that is unpardonable, because the individual doesn't want to be pardoned.
     
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  8. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Yeah, to witness the clear manifestation of the Spirit and to then ascribe it to evil is to betray an unredeemable depth of rejection.
     
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  9. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Which sounds good, except that in the case of the Pharisees “disbelief” was NOT a factor. Nicodemus, a Pharisee, confided to Jesus in private that the Pharisees knew He was sent from God, though Nicodemus didn’t specifically say they believed He was the Messiah. Irregardless, they knew enough to know that the miracles were not from demons or Satan. But, because they wanted to discredit Him so badly before the people so they could reject Him and continue to lean on them for spiritual guidance, they slandered the Holy Spirit, and blasphemed Him in the process. To their eternal damnation.
     
  10. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Henceforth, why it’s “unforgivable.”
     
  11. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    You're making my point. The problem is that you're taking a general principle, and arguing from a particular circumstance. Do you think people who believe in Jesus are going to subsequently blaspheme Him? No. They blasphemed Jesus following a rejection of Him, and it's that rejection that is unpardonable.
     
  12. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    The Pharisees knew who Jesus was. You keep mentioning “unbelief.” There was no “unbelief” involved. They didn’t reject Him because they didn’t “believe in Him.” They knew who He was and foolishly rejected Him anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  13. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    They did not know who Jesus was. They thought he was a teacher sent from God.

    That is not who Jesus is. So to say that they "knew" who Jesus was is not true. They did not believe him to be God; QED, unbelief.
     
  14. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    The disciples didn't even know who He was until after his crucifixion, and neither did the Pharisees (those that believed, anyway). No one who knows that Jesus is God is going to go after Jesus, who is God, and especially a religious Jew at that. They went after Him because they thought He was a fake, a fraud, an imposter, etc.

    Here's a practical example of the view you're offering (which is popularly offered): Paul was a Pharisee, he committed blasphemy (see Acts 26:11), and he murdered Christians. Paul was saved by Christ. But I thought he committed the unpardonable sin?
     
  15. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    No, the Pharisees didn’t believe Jesus was a fraud and imposter. They knew He was genuinely sent from God. Nicodemus bluntly said so. Did they know He was the Messiah? I don’t know for sure. They should have. They definitely knew His miracles were of God. They rejected Jesus because they were threatened by Him, not out of “unbelief.”
     
  16. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Ok. Putting it that way, what you indicated earlier makes more sense to me now.
     
  17. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    You're taking too much out of that passage. Jews won't even write God (G-d), so do you really think they're going to happen upon the identity of Jesus, realise He's God, and then go after Him anyway? Not to mention their accusations against Jesus at His trial, or what we read in places like Acts 5:39 ('But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God'). They didn't know.
     
  18. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I don’t think I am. They may not have known Jesus was the Messiah (though they should have), but they definitely knew He was sent by God in SOME capacity. Nicodemus bluntly said the Pharisees knew that. That being the case, they shouldn’t have said Jesus was casting out demons thanks to Beelzebub. After all, being sent from God, why would Jesus be in league with the Devil? But, they did make that claim. But not because they genuinely thought Beelzebub was helping Jesus. They knew otherwise, but claimed that so the Jews would want nothing to do with Jesus. So they could continue to have a hold over the people. They were in a position of power and Jesus was “cramping their style.”
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  19. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    You're making an assumption there. Nicodemus didn't bluntly say the Pharisees knew that.
    What he actually said was:
    2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” John 3:2 NIV

    We don't know who the "we" are that Nicodemus referred to. If the Pharisees "knew" Jesus was sent from God, as many have already stated, they wouldn't have tried to kill Him when He said He was God on several occasions.
     
  20. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Nicodemus was a Pharisee. Who else do you think he meant by “we?” You’re presuming too much when you say they wouldn’t have tried to kill Jesus if they knew He was from God. I think their lust for power was strong. Also, I don’t know. Did Jesus ever tell the Pharisees He was God? I don’t recall that. He didn’t say that often and I don’t believe that when He did it was to the Pharisees.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017

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