Discussion in 'The Last Days' started by The Parson, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. The Parson

    The Parson Your friendly neighborhood parson Staff Member

    I just posted to a thread on another board about ISIS. You know, the recent string of deaths claimed by them around the world. It's interesting to think how they can be combated. We're fighting a mindset that's different from dealing with Hitler and Tojo. I think they're the direct result of Abraham's wanting to help God out by being the father of Ishmael. Anyone ever studied on the problems between the children of Isaac and Ishmael?
  2. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Genesis 17:19-20
    19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac.d]">[d] I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

    Genesis 21:14-21
    14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the Desert of Beersheba.
    15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down about a bowshot away, for she thought, “I cannot watch the boy die.” And as she sat there, shec]">[c] began to sob.
    17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”
    19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.
    20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

    I suppose one could say Abraham's decision to help out God had a direct impact in the founding of the Arabs as a people, but God certainly had His hand in blessing Ishmael and making him a great nation as well.
  3. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

  4. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Half-brother's still don't like each other much.

    Strife is always the result of men giving God their unnecessary assistance.
  5. The Parson

    The Parson Your friendly neighborhood parson Staff Member

    Ain't it the truth. And the strife seems to be getting worse and worse.
  6. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    There's a lot of truth there RK. But what about Esau and Jacob. The strife was there pretty much since the womb.

    Genesis 25:21-23
    21 Isaac prayed to the Lord on behalf of his wife, because she was childless. The Lord answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, “Why is this happening to me?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
    23 The Lord said to her,
    “Two nations are in your womb,
    and two peoples from within you will be separated;
    one people will be stronger than the other,
    and the older will serve the younger.”
  7. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Sorry if I derailed.
  8. The Parson

    The Parson Your friendly neighborhood parson Staff Member

    No derail there. Thanks for the thought.
  9. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    I think a lot of the Bible stories we see in Genesis and beyond have a tendency to defy the then-popular "firstborn" mindset and elevate non-firstborns to prominence "because God chose them" (Cain, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc.). You want the right to lead without being the firstborn? You're going to have to claim divine election/favor. And so they did.

    So ... based on that ... while I can appreciate that the children of Isaac certainly do historically have some history of being rivals with the children of Ishmael ... I think ISIS goes way beyond that. They're a global movement with global recruits, and are just your run-of-the-mill warmongers who seek to conquer via ruthlessness. They too will be stopped and disbanded or absorbed, eventually; although the West did help them rise to power because of arms deals and political power plays. They're certainly not the first of their kind, and they won't be the last either. Africa is full of those people and has been forever ... North Korea is a prison country run by a dynasty of those kinds of people. I certainly wouldn't give them any "biblical" significance beyond the fact that men have been bloodthirsty warmongers and powermongers from earliest history on, and will continue to be, in one way or another, until God drastically and finally changes this.

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