Discussion in 'Controversial' started by devilslayer365, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    1. The church should not be engaged in acting as agents of the state for the purpose of solemnizing marriages. Churches should only be doing religious ceremonies that have no binding power with the state. Pastors/officiants should not be signing marriage licenses on behalf of the state. When they do, they invite government control.

    2. Gay money spends just as well as straight money. Bake the cake, go to the wedding, befriend the gay couple, and love them to Jesus.

    Or, just write "God hates fags" on top of their cake.

    I think this is a false dilemma that the evangelical church has created for itself.
    BrianW likes this.
  2. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    While I don't think it's a sin to bake a cake for gays any more than it would be to serve them in a restaurant, sell them a house, sell them furniture etc I do think that governments take on way more authority than they should have by fining or imprisoning those who refuse to perform services for a gay "wedding." ( I always put that in parentheses because I think it's an oxymoron calling these things a wedding. They aren't. They are a secular perversion of reality. )

    I also think it should be a states rights issue and none of the federal governments business one way or the other.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  3. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    That's the way I'd try to handle it.
  4. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    I agree. Curiously enough lots of noise about the "gay agenda" was starting to be made in the 90s during a time when televangelists and others were embracing more and more greed, excess, and lavish lifestyles, AKA the "prosperity (false) gospel". I consider the whole "gay thing" a deflection tactic so Christians get otherwise diverted rather than looking too closely into the practices and lifestyles of certain churchy leader folk they keep supporting with their donations ... just my opinion.

    Curiously enough, theologians in countries such as Germany cannot for the life of them understand the utter obsession the American church has with gay people. In other countries the whole thing is a minor thing and close to a non-issue, and Christians there have more important things to focus on, seems like.
  5. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I'm convinced the obsession with "gay" in the North American evangelical church is because many evangelical pastors, coming from a Victorian prudishness related to their own sexuality, are so confused in their own understanding of healthy heterosexuality that they are afraid they might like homosexual activity and accordingly decry it all the more.
  6. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    I'm not sure about that --- but it sure made me laugh. :p
  7. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Active Member

    Yeah, no. I don't buy it. At least not in the vast majority of cases. Lots of straight people, quite secure in their heterosexuality, simply find the idea of anal sex between two men or oral sex between two women to be disgusting. Period.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  8. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Active Member

    Better yet, how about the state keeps THEIR noses out of the institution of marriage altogether? Also, I just couldn't go to a gay couple's wedding, even if I liked them personally. That implies I'm ok with what they're doing. I'm not. And I can't pretend I am just to make them feel better.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    MommaJenny likes this.
  9. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Too many property and children rights are affected by family relations to keep the state out
  10. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    As far as that goes: The "rights" a government decides a "married" couple can have doesn't really effect the sanctity of a Godly union between hetero Christians. Taxes, property rights, visitation rights, inheritance, adoption, power of attorney and hospital visitation rights etc etc shouldn't be a concern of The Church.
    Why should we care if these people are allowed to have these secular rights by a government?

    We should always stand up and fight for our religious rights and freedoms but secular things between secular people aren't really our concern. I absolutely think that marriage has always been and should always be a union between people of the opposite sex. I'm not pro-gay "marriage."
    But I'm fine if they allow them the aforementioned things.

    The church should instead worry much more about the high divorce rates, premarital sex, children had out of wedlock, lying, stealing, false teaching and more among those who claim to be Christians.
    They should also worry about helping the elderly and poor if they aren't. For example--I've seen churches spend tens of thousands of dollars on huge tvs they can hang so their huge congregations can get a good show when they know they have people that are struggling financially in the same congregation. Are Tvs more important than hungry children? Are gays more important?

    I don't think so.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    RabbiKnife likes this.
  11. The Parson

    The Parson Your friendly neighborhood parson Staff Member

    Sure, that's what our civil courts are for, isn't it?
  12. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

  13. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    Yes, but the courts can only enforce a right it recognizes

    Marital status should not effect a probate, for example, but unless you have a written will, the government decides who gets your stuff.
  14. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Active Member

    Well, the only reason the federal government gets involved is because many people view it as a "constitutional right" for gays to be able to get married. If states try to limit marriage to heterosexual couples many people believe that goes against our Constitution, which says we are entitled to obtain "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Happiness being the emphasis in the case of gay marriage.

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