I can't stand the thought that.....

Discussion in 'Controversial' started by ProDeo, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Right into contro.

    Through the years I often heard people estimate the percentage of saved people. It goes from 1% to 5 - 10%, max. 15%.

    Even if we assume 20% that means the devil gets 80% so in the LOF he at least can celebrate he has defeated God on numbers.

    I can't stand that thought, hate it with passion.
     
  2. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    1%? I'm thinking like 0.001%
    You have all those people who were alive in Jesus' day in China, North / South America... couldn't have had the message reach them for generations.
    Then you have all those who came before.
    Then once allowing for the word to have spread over all the earth, then you MUST subdivide the potential Christians into those who got the right Christianity and those who didn't. As far as I'm concerned, that appears to be most difficult part, with the *vast* bulk of Christianity disqualified from salvation.

    A bare pathetic handful of souls will reach whatever ice-cream puff eternity. Almost every human who has ever existed will go to a place of burning... where every single one of them will experience an infinitely greater amount of suffering than has been inflicted upon all creation across all time.

    If your religion is true, than little differentiates its God from its devil. Pain and suffering beyond imagination being, in the long run, the only things that exist eternally.
     
  3. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    I think it's wrong to assume that Satan will be celebrating anything. It's also shortsighted - and irresponsible, to say the least - to try to estimate the percentage of saved people. Maybe 99% of people are saved, and 1% aren't -- we just don't know.

    Yawn.
     
  4. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    During the middle ages, I read that it was generally accepted that 1 in 5 were saved. But it really is a pointless speculation.
     
  5. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    I suppose that's the thought that makes many so passionate about evangelizing and compassionate for the lost.
     
    Scooby_Snax likes this.
  6. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I think we should be extremely careful about telling God who has faith and who doesn't.
     
    פNIʞƎƎS likes this.
  7. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Absolutely.
     
  8. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    then what would be your defence?
     
  9. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Sure, but using hyperbole to sharpen a point isn't unbiblical ;)

    As someone who is leaning to (hoping for) some sort of Univerlism I don't have a problem with your 99% but I think that many Protestants will call your view in denial and will back it up with Scripture and they are not without points. Hence my (holy) rant. It's a terrible thought if God is outnumbered.
     
  10. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    They could, but they'd be wrong. Their arguments would ultimately be from silence, and the idea that Satan could have some kind of victory of God, misguided. He is being judged, after all. He's going to be tormented as much as anyone in hell, if not more. Hell isn't Satan's domain (contrary to books, movies, and video games).
     
  11. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    It appears much of organized religion shrinks from and subdues the solemn fact that the world, except for a relative few, is going to hell.

    "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." Luke 13: 23,22

    "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Mt 7:14
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  12. Scooby_Snax

    Scooby_Snax Rut-Roh

    If you do as you are lead to do, you are a blessing, even when you don't know it.
    I have hope in God-- even though people irk me quite often. I have to have hope--
     
  13. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    My defense of what?
     
  14. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    It's judgement Day and you stand before God to give account.

    God - why did you leave Me?

    Your answer would be?
     
  15. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    If you reject someone you think is god, but who isn't actually God, have you rejected God? That is, is 'A' identical to 'B'.
     
  16. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Context is (was) - If your religion is true
     
  17. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Yes, and if he rejects Christianity but holds the wrong understanding of it, has he rejected Christianity? That's no defence of HisLeast either, by the way. It's been awhile since I've seen him post anything against Christianity that wasn't kindergarten level (when I know he's clearly capable of much more).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  18. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    One could be Pope, Bishop or Preacher and miss Christ.
    The person of Christ, and, apparently, many do miss that.
     
  19. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    Answer for an optimistic view of Christianity:
    Abstention. Such a God would most assuredly know, and would have known an eternity before I was even created. Such a God would have known every permutation of answer for every potential reality that could have manifested. Such a God would be able to express they why with far greater fluency than I. But such a God would also see just what lengths I went to in order to find, believe, and keep believing in it.... despite the sense of morality and limited capacity for reason such a God "gifted" me with. Such a God could do what it damn well pleases, and already has, across an infinite number of possible realities.

    A less optimistic view:
    What would my answer matter anyway? Would this God rather I had submitted in terror of an eternal torture I could have earned despite submission, anyway?
     
  20. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    ^^ This.

    If you reject Fabricated God and Pretend Jesus, it doesn't matter where "they" say you're supposedly "spending eternity" regardless of how badly they're trying to scare you into "repentance".

    Only God knows in the end, and what's between a person and their Creator, is between a person and their Creator and nor for me to presume upon. But as y'all know already, I hold out hope for the best-possible-case scenario. Which the Bible permits me to do. And nobody has actual proof to the contrary. And by proof I mean something other than "Bible says" because the early believers gave witness to a resurrection from the dead they, themselves had seen with their very own eyes. And God backed up their witness with powerful demonstrations. Even Paul gave witness to an encounter with a living Jesus he, himself, had experienced. So ... what's our witness? What have we actually seen? What have we actually witnessed? What have we actually experienced? Those are the boundaries the Bible permits us to actually give account of. Everything else is speculation. In my opinion.
     

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