Discussion in 'Church History' started by MommaJenny, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    Nope. I disagree. You want to show with Scripture and maybe teach me something?

    Although most of the biblical examples of fasting deal with food and drink we can see -in scripture- where other things can be used as a fast as well.
    You can try edify me and show me my error if you wish to since you're so adamant about it --But unless you're coming from a biblical base and mindset I'm not interested.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  2. TrustGzus

    TrustGzus Don't make me hangry Staff Member

    Well then I didn't water fast for years.
  3. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I'm not fasting right now, but my wife and I are on day two of a 10 day vegetable smoothie only plan. It is essentially a "Daniel fast". My wife has never fasted, so she wasn't aware of the psychological impact of not eating.

    She was hyper-aware of all the food advertisements and the amount of time spent dealing with food and the number of food outlets while running errands yesterday. It was really quite remarkable to her.

    Whatever the "fast," whether it is water only or liquids only or veggies only a la Daniel, one of the immediate impacts ... which is a large part of the concept ... is to immediately make you realize how much our brains affect our will without thinking about it. Intentionality becomes important.
  4. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    Where in Scripture does fasting NOT involve food or water/liquids? That's a new one to me. Honestly. I can show you Scripture after Scripture having to do with food/drink. If you can show me Scripture not having to do with food/drink I'd appreciate it.

    Examples of fasting in connection with food/drink:
    Early believers in Acts 13 & 14

    (Fasting is usually combined with prayer & sincerely seeking God, and often also combined with repentance, i.e humbling oneself and the outward display of "sackcloth & ashes" to show contriteness and sincerity in the face of calamity, to petition God to avert it)
  5. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    You're the one who stated that fasting is absolutely strictly food and drink related and so I asked you to show me Scripture that teaches that. You've yet to do so.

    After you have I'll gladly give my response with Scripture and reasoning that I believe shows otherwise sister.

    Most - heck the vast majority and almost all- examples of fasting in Scripture are food and drink fasting. That doesn't prove absolutely, strictly.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  6. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    I cannot find a single Scripture in which fasting is not related to food/drink. I'm not going to list gobs and gobs of verses when you're the one who claims to know about an exception that you've yet to produce. Ain't nobody got time for that.

    Anyway, bottom line: I'll continue to abstain from actual food & drink when I fast, to whatever degree God lays it upon my conscience like He has been doing for over 2 decades.

    You're free to do whatever your conscience compels you to do. That's between you and God in the end. Because I don't fast for you and you don't fast for me.
  7. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    You've got the time and will to make a statement of absolutes but you're unwilling to attempt to edify and show scriptural proof for it? Who asked for gobs and gobs of verses? I asked for some - or even one- that proves or at least gives a good basis for your -absolutely, strictly- claim.
    If I'm wrong and you can edify and show me I'm wrong I'll happily admit it and thank you for it.

    Bottom line: You shouldn't make such bold claims if you aren't willing or are unable to back them up sister.
  8. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    At least we are all fasting from "coffee" here....

    Why make this binary? It's a conversation. Let's not follow the dialectic of TheForumThatShallNotBeNamed. The challenge to prove negatives is never very edifying.

    So anyone. Can anyone think of any passage in Scripture where the concept of fasting, for the believer, does not relate to abstaining from either (a) all food or (b) some types of food (i.e., Daniel or the Nazarite vow).
  9. BrianW

    BrianW Active Member

    Oh. Nice dig. Much appreciated.

    Save yourselves the trouble as I'll just go ahead and remove my offending presence. I guess you can say you've convinced me to coffee myself if that makes you guys feel better.
  10. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    You OK, Brian? You seem awfully touchy, which is not your usual persona. Seriously, anything we can pray about?

    Nobody took any digs, and your presence is not offending anyone. You are valued and loved here, and I hope you know that.

    Just don't want any of us going down certain rabbit holes.
  11. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    What "offending presence"? Why would you leaving make any of us feel better?

    If it helps you understand where I'm coming from, I've honestly seen statements such as "I'm going to fast social media this lent". I only wish I was kidding. Social media as well as owning a computer are first-world modern obscene luxuries that taking a break from in no ancient culture nor religion would have been considered "fasting" according to any standard. I'm avoiding such nonsensical rhetoric by trying to refocus people on actual fasting, which is a sacrament and holy discipline that is prescribed to seek God and humble oneself and come as the needy, hungry beggars we all ultimately all are before Him.

    It was already difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom according to early Bible standards; it must be nigh impossible for us first-world 21st century creatures that have every luxury imaginable at our fingertips. To where certain people now call every little abstaining from luxury & privilege "fasting", which in my opinion makes a mockery of it.

    Also, having read the article that was linked earlier in the thread --- using 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 as an argument for "abstaining from sex = fasting" is a misunderstanding, because Paul clearly separates "depriving one another" (i.e. abstaining from sex) for a time in order to give oneself to prayer and fasting right there in verse 5.

    When David tried to seek God about the life of his infant son, he deprived himself of sleep overnight while he was fasting. The sleep deprivation itself was not fasting. As far as I can tell.

    Granted, fasting in itself makes nobody holy, or more holy than people who eat & drink. There's a balance here that I think we must respect. You're no more righteous for eating & drinking than I am for not eating or drinking. We do it all for the glory of God, and that's all that matters.

    I don't particularly care for it when discussing holy things devolve into arguments that have people take offense. I don't care for taking offense myself (which has happened and at which point I usually pull out & take a break), and I don't care when others do so. That's when it's best to just pull back and leave us all to our personal convictions. This isn't worth breaking fellowship over.

    I'm here to connect with my brothers & sisters, not with our beliefs, opinions & arguments.
  12. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    The only think I can think (but not the verse) of is the occasions where men are told to abstain from sexual relations prior to a battle.. but I'm pretty sure the word 'fast' was not employed there.
  13. פNIʞƎƎS

    פNIʞƎƎS Connoisseur of Memes Staff Member

    Sure hope you don't leave for good Brian.
  14. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    Wikipedia: "Fasting is a willing abstinence or reduction from some or all food, drink, or both, for a period of time" abstain from all food. eat only sparingly or of certain kinds of food, especially as areligious observance. The act of abstaining from food; the act of observing a fast.
    Encyclopedia Britannica: Fasting, abstinence from food or drink or both for health, ritualistic, religious, or ethical purposes

    The reason "most" (read: *ALL*) examples of fasting in scripture are food related is because fasting only deals with food and water. If someone abstained from something else, the Bible didn't call it a fast.

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