Its clear to me at least that scripture describes a God that does not have infinite patience. Further, this patience is not evenly applied (not meaning that as slight BTW). Paul, who started his journey opposed to Christ evidently benefited from great storehouses of patience and grace. The poor sot who reached out to steady the Ark before it could fall received none. I find no good reason for a Grace standard to exist, nor for it to be applied uniformly.
Seems that God was a bit particular who handled his Ark, or more rather how the ark was handled. It wasn't God's will that anyone handle the Ark except the way He prescribed it. That would more have to do with judgment. Paul had a purpose even before he was saved as does everyone that's born of a woman. It's the fact that God's will prevails over everything, except the choices of man. It was the choice of Uzzah to do what God didn't want him to do and paid the price. It's not God's will that Uzzah or anyone should perish, but all come to repentance. Grace limited. No, don't think so. 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
We're talking about the limits of grace, so fault is already assumed. Lets not conflate "who was at fault"... lets talk about grace. Indeed, God *was* particular about the Ark - particularly low on grace. God also did not intend for man to murder man - yet Cain lived. Story after story after story - some given leniency, others not. This is not a condemnation, just an observation that the God in scripture seems to have definitive and indecipherable limits.
Sure we're talking about Grace that has no limits. As I said in the other thread concerning hell, it's free will that hinders, but never limits Grace.
Seems we're getting at a distinction between the limits of grace, and the limits of the provision of grace.
I think grace is always provided. I just think for some reason we often prefer to do things the hard way.
I thought we were investigating weather grace has limits, not already concluding that it doesn't. Even a cursory reading of the old testament shows a God with variable levels of patience.
Really? I see a God that's long-suffering even in Sodom and Gomorrah, at the Red Sea and the destruction of Pharaohs army, at the base of the Holy Mount, the battlefield with David and the Philistines, etc., etc., etc.