Confederate statues down...why now?

Discussion in 'Controversial' started by devilslayer365, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Ah. Thanks for the reality check! :p
     
  2. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    The same issue around Zwarte Piet even made it in Canada, specifically where we used to live. There is a store called the Holland Shopping Centre that used to do a Sinter Klaas event in the town. People began complaining about the Black Peter so the owner decided to cancel the whole event since it was kind pretty much a key part of the event. I can't recall what was done for the character, but I do understand about having white people dressed up in black face which does hearken back to the minstrel shows. It's not like there are no black people in the city.
     
  3. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Do you disagree with Germany's general stand on Nazi symbols and imagery?
     
  4. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    More or less, yeah. I'd rather they be out in the open for refutation, than hidden and censored. I'm generally not in favour of any restrictions on speech, expression, etc.
     
  5. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL.

    I agree

    Hiding truth, as ugly as it may be, doesn't help
     
  6. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I never got the impression at all that Germany is hiding their past.
     
  7. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Then why would they be taking down their Nazi statues? They're obviously not proud of their history. So, they want the stuff taken down. That's pretty much the definition of "hiding their past." If you don't agree with that, how would you describe it?
     
  8. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    I was not speaking to any statues coming down (not even sure that happened, or even how many statues were put up during the time of the Third Reich). I don't know the exact specifics of the law in Germany, but it essentially makes illegal any display Nazi symbology (e.g. swastika). I am not sure of the speech issues without looking it up. I don't know how this particular hides their history when its in every history textbook and still an common in popular culture.
     
  9. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Well, there's no way to COMPLETELY hide their past. NOBODY can do that. They're still trying to do so, though, to some point. They're ashamed of their past. Don't exactly fault them for it. Nazism WAS horrible and nothing to be proud of.
     
  10. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Germany has banned, and / or made illegal all things third Reich, Nazi, etc., except for what it displays in its memorials and museums. I don't believe in the concept of 'hate speech', and if it exists, I don't believe in banning it (that's not to say anything about the consequences of acting on such speech). I'm against censorship in all but extreme cases, and the same for making ideas illegal. Why ought it be illegal for me to, e.g., destroy pro-Nazi arguments while using Nazi imagery to make a mockery of it?

    What is an example of potential hate speech in Germany, you might be wondering? Get ready for it: Angela Merkel is destroying Germany with her insane immigration policies, and she should close the borders moving forward to protect German national identity.

    Someone might take this as inciting violence towards immigrants, or some other minority group, and therefore 'hateful' (no doubt due to the line referencing German national identity, and the association of such an idea with 'right wing' groups, xenophobia, etc.).
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  11. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Yeah, I've learned to quit worrying about "offending" people anymore. Seriously, I just don't care. It's pretty rare when I'm intending to be offensive (I do it occasionally). It's just that I know that, inevitably, somebody, at some point, in some manner, will be bothered by what I have to say. I just view it as their problem. I refuse to walk around on egg shells for anybody. As long as I'm being honest, even if you don't like what I have to say, then I don't feel bad saying what I have to say.
     

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