Christian Choices vs. Lost Peoples Choices

Discussion in 'Holy Rants' started by Timothy, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Timothy

    Timothy Administrator Staff Member

    Amen. I hope I didn't make it sound as if it was a standalone phrase.
  2. TomH

    TomH Active Member

    Not at all. I don't recall you ever attempting to do such a thing.
  3. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I don't find it shocking that sinners make bad choices because they're lost. But, at the same time, I'm not particularly ok about it, especially if their bad choices negatively impact me personally.
  4. Timothy

    Timothy Administrator Staff Member

    Aaron, would you pray for the salvation of say, someone who had maimed or killed someone close to you? Just a question...
  5. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    Actually biblically, the judging of sin in a person's life, by the Church, only applies after that person has confessed themselves to be a follower of Christ -- never before.

    The world isn't our problem, and we're to leave them be. As believers, we're to judge sin within the Church, never without its boundaries. God judges those without, so how we personally feel towards them or their behavior is entirely irrelevant.

    So whether you "hate the sin and love the sinner" doesn't matter, honestly. You can't judge/correct/discipline them either way. You've exactly zero biblical authority to do so.

    1 Cor 5:
    9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

    12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

    (To be clear -- These are not believers who struggle with sin and wish to free themselves from it and need support while doing so until they mature, but people who flagrantly, openly and proudly persist in their sin and refuse to do anything about it.)
  6. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    I would but it would be difficult. And, honestly, it wouldn't be because I wanted to. It would be more because I knew it was my obligation. It wouldn't feel good or right for me to pray for somebody that caused me such personal pain. But I would. Because God commands me to.
  7. devilslayer365

    devilslayer365 Wazzup?!

    Well, let's define "judging" the sin of unbelievers. If an unbeliever mugs me, the sin of stealing, is it "wrong" of me to be angry at them for it? Is my anger "judging" them or am I just expressing a normal human emotion about another person's sin that impacted me personally?
  8. DaniH

    DaniH You're probably fine.

    Short answer to your question: No, your anger isn't judging anybody. Because anger = feels. And feels =|= judgment. You're simply expressing human emotion.

    Longer answer: Judging has nothing to do with anger or any other feels.

    Judging means to weigh an action, gather the evidence, and then assign an appropriate consequence to the action. Exactly like a judge in court does.

    So if the theft is against the law of the land, then (regardless of how you personally feel) you would know to report it to the police, press charges, and seek to have the consequences of lawbreaking assigned to the person who mugged you. You defer the action to the appropriate authorities. If the perp is an unbeliever, you leave it at that.

    Now, if the perp happens to be a believer, then in addition to legal action being pursued through the authorities, you would also address the local church body to weigh their deed in that environment, and the elders would decide on the appropriate consequences as far as the Scripture guide them to do so. Is the person repentant? Have they served their time? Are they willing to make restitution? Are they willing to pay you back what they stole, plus interest, as per God's Law?

    For example, the church body may decide that repayment and interest is enough. However, they obviously have no say-so over the authorities that enforce the law of the land, so a believer who sins, and also breaks the law of the land, is then actually subject to being judged twice.

    Whereas if a believer sins, but the sin is not illegal as per the law of the land, then the sin would be dealt with in the church body alone and appropriate consequences applied, even though no police would step in and etc. to bring justice on that end of it. This is true with sexual sins for example, where the law of the land is a lot more lenient than the Scriptures are.

    Hope that explains it a bit more.

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