Brussels

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dani, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. Dani

    Dani You're probably fine.

    Please pray for the loved ones of the dead victims of the Brussels terrorist attack earlier today, for those who were injured, as well as for grace and wisdom for the responders and law enforcement folks to know how to proceed from here. Horrible. Just horrible. :(
     
  2. RabbiKnife

    RabbiKnife Open the pod bay door, please HAL. Staff Member

    Agreed.

    The natural state of man without a Redeemer.
     
  3. Timothy

    Timothy Administrator Staff Member

    Thank you for this reminder Dani. I sure will.
     
  4. Cloudwalker

    Cloudwalker The genuine, original, one and only Cloudwalker Staff Member

  5. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    It's coming close to where I live, the general expectation is that sooner or later the Netherlands will be the target of IS as well. But as our PM said today, "we are with more". They (IS) can hurt us but never defeat us. It's too silly for words if they (IS) think they can.
     
  6. IMINXTC

    IMINXTC Time Bandit

    Prayers today for the besieged people of Belgium.
     
  7. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Not to be a downer, but silly to think that they can't.

    A guy I went to church was in the airport when the bombs went off -- made it through safely.
     
  8. hisleast

    hisleast FISHBEAT!

    I tend to look at it beyond ISIS and more in terms of radical Islam. The Caliphate.
    With the current state of the West and the dominance of neo/regressive lieberalism, odds are hugely in favor of the Caliphate.

    Since it is taboo to consider our own cultures virtuous, we have no basis by which to publicly assess cultural compatibility, and thus no expectation of integration. The flood of immigrants into Europe expect that they need not change or adopt another country's values. They will bring their own norms and expectations with them, which will clash with the existing culture. That culture will produce friction at the fringes, and the disenfranchised neo-Europeans will be scooped up by the radical elements. Meanwhile, the few moderates will be a social shield blocking all discussion of Islam's growing influence in Europe.

    If there isn't an outright purge of traditional Europeans by a growing radicalized population, then they will at the very least be bred into a minority.
     
  9. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Not to mention that kids in the West are taught to hate themselves because of the sins of their culture(s), leading to a whole host of issues (like leaving to join ISIS).
     
  10. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    Assimilation, or cultural shifts of immigrants, is not an overnight thing though. I would venture that you need at least two generations within the new culture to fully integrate. It's a bit early to suggest that the Syrian refugees (in particular) are all going to be radicalized over the next few years. And I'm not saying that there are not valid points regarding Western nations faults.

    I think if the European nations play this right with respect to the refugees, they could come out of this really well in the long run.
     
  11. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    They won't defeat us, we'll do that for them.

    Every time they pull off a successful attack We The People start shouting for more government action to protect us from the Bogeyman. There's not a whole lot the government can do to protect us, short of pretty much shutting down society as we know it, but that won't stop them from introducing ever-more restrictions.

    We've already seen security at airports get silly (while remaining mostly ineffective), we've already seen the use of cash increasingly restricted (notionally to prevent terrorism) and we're already seeing a seemingly relentless creep of government seeking more and more powers of surveillance to watch everyone even if they aren't suspected of doing anything wrong. And then the mantra "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" gets repeated endlessly, as if endless repetition made it true (it didn't work out too well for Jean Charles de Menezes).

    I was in London on 7-7-2005 when the Underground was bombed, I was on the London Underground trying to get across town when Jean Charles de Menezes was shot (although thankfully not on the same train), so I've been pretty close to the nasty stuff. I also remember one particular day when some group or another left a car bomb in central London but by the time they called in a bomb warning the car was nowhere to be found. It turned out the local parking enforcement had towed it away and it was discovered at the compound with the device still present and armed.
     
  12. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    It does seem there are more people (or at least more vocal people) who either insist that any young man with brown skin and a beard is a Very Dangerous Person who would kill us all given a chance, or insist that even the angry young man with brown skin and a beard and an AK-47 is merely fighting back against cultural oppression or some such.

    It's been several years since I concluded that demographics, as much as economics, meant that Western economies could do little other than collapse. As you say, for the same reasons it's almost inevitable that over time Western societies will also collapse.

    I wonder if anyone thought to write about such a thing while exiled on a Greek island?
     
  13. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    The worst scenario for Europe might be to end up as Israel.

    There is irony in that thought for the Israel critics.
     
  14. tango

    tango ... and you shall live ... Staff Member

    There is something of an irony in that.
     
  15. teddyv

    teddyv The horse is in the barn. Staff Member

    That was pretty much the case back in the 15-1600's. Even then the internal squabbles of the various states then prevented the Europeans from dealing decisively with the incoming Muslim threat.
     
  16. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Difference is that Europe no longer believes in itself, and unlike the 1600's Europe is allowing in millions of Muslims immigrants in what will be a failed liberal social diversity experiment. I'd want to be careful not to come across as if I'm painting Muslim immigrants are especially evil - most are people who want to get on with their lives. The problem for me is the difference in cultural, political, religious, etc. values. Islamic culture simply isn't compatible with liberal western democracy. I don't think assimilation is possible without giving up some of the core tenets of Islam, and that's not going to be acceptable to the vast majority of immigrants (which is why you have areas throughout Europe that are immigrant dominated: the public shouldn't go there - women especially - the police don't go there, they have their own courts, etc.).
     
  17. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Islam is a hard nut to crack, it isn't just a personal belief like Christianity, it is a way of life.
     
  18. Athanasius

    Athanasius Life is not a problem to be solved Staff Member

    Christianity is a way of life too ;)
     
  19. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    I believe it does but the craziness of WW1, the bloodshed and volume of destruction of WW2 changed the way of thinking. Throughout the centuries there always has been wars, but WW2 made Europe realize what kind of weapons wars were fought, especially after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They with Einstein realized that it would be unknown with what kind of weapons WW3 would be fought but as Einstein continued he knew WW4 would be fought, with sticks and stones.

    In a nutshell, Europe had enough. Enough of all the bloodshed on its continent. As a result it did 2 things:

    1. Cancel the death penalty.

    2. Seek political solutions, tie european countries so closely economically they can't do with each other in order that they can't make war with each other any longer. First step was taken by BElgium, NEtherlands and LUXemburg (Benelux) and in steps evolved into the EU.

    And the EU expands and expands to the east much to the dislike of Russia who feels threatened by the European expansion movement, it's why Putin responded so furiously after the pro EU swing (coup) in Ukraine.

    As for the current refugee problem - I am with Merkel. We need to help those poor bastards, it's our Christian duty. Living on a continent with 500 million a couple of million Syrians should not be a problem.

    However, it's to hope they will not abuse our hospitality else I fear all bets are off. As it is now the leader of the biggest political party in my country is on trial for racism. The party has an extreme negative stance on Islam. Its leader (as said on trial for racism) IMO shows tendencies of a dictator. Fortunately the Netherlands politically is so fragmented that he has no chance to become PM. But a terror attack may change that.
     
  20. ProDeo

    ProDeo What a day for a day dream

    Sure, but on a personal level. Islam is saturated in daily life on society level, the street, school, politics etc.
     

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